Matrilineal Monarchy?

[Hector Fenwick]

We have never tried this in the history of mankind (unless you believe that Amazonesses existed).

 

[Osipi]

Ancient Egypt was matrilineal, wherein descent to the throne is through the female line, this system was formal and legitimist from the beginning to the end of Pharaonic history.

https://www.quora.com/What-evidence-is-there-of-Matrilineality-in-Ancient-Egypt

 

[Hector Fenwick]

I meant a monarchy where the throne is passed from mother to daughter.

 

[Somebody]

Ancient Egypt was matrilineal, wherein descent to the throne is through the female line, this system was formal and legitimist from the beginning to the end of Pharaonic history.

https://www.quora.com/What-evidence-is-there-of-Matrilineality-in-Ancient-Egypt

Same in the Maroon culture that is based on Matrilineal lines; but with a man (a female-line descendant) in charge...

I meant a monarchy where the throne is passed from mother to daughter.

So, what do you want to discuss about it?

I don't think we've had one; and would men be completely disqualified in your hypothetical world or would it be female-preference?

 

[Somebody]

We could of course trace what the royal family of various kingdoms would look like had they had matrilineal succession.

For example, if the Belgians had started with the same pair: prince consort Leopold (born: prince of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld) & (his second wife) queen Louise Marie I (born princess of Orleans) but had applied female-preference succession rules, it would have been quite an adventure...

1. Queen Louise Marie (reign: 1832-1850; born princess of Orleans; 4 children; the youngest being her heir)
2. Queen Charlotte (reign: 1850-1927; born princess of Belgium - daughter of queen Louise (Marie); her husband wouldn't have become emperor of Mexico; no (biological) children) - with her father as regent for her until she turned 18/21 in 1858/61
3. Queen Dorothea (reign: 1927-1967; born princess of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha; granddaughter of prince (king) Leopold of Belgium (second brother of Charlotte) by his eldest daughter; no (biological) children))
4. Queen Stephanie (reign: 1967-2005; born princess of Windisch-Graetz; great-granddaughter of Leopold by his second daughter princess Stephanie & crown prince Rudolf of Austria; daughter of archduchess Elisabeth Marie of Austria)
5. King Alvar (reign: 2005-2019; born count Alvar Etienne d'Alcantara de Querrieu; eldest son of '4')
6. Queen Patricia (?)/'madame Serge de Backer' (reign: 2019 - now; born countess d'Alcantara de Querrieu; eldest daughter of '5')

With crown prince Samuel, his wife princess Caterine; and daughters princesses Camille and Elise.

The pedigree for the above (as far as relevant for the line; including siblings):

1 - Louise of Orleans (1812 - 1850)
* Louis Philippe of Belgium (1833 - 1834)
* Leopold of Belgium (1835 - 1909)
** Louise of Belgium (1858 - 1924)
*** Leopold Clement of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1878 - 1916)
*** 3 - Dorothea of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (1881 - 1967)
** Leopold of Belgium (1859 - 1869)
** Stéphanie of Belgium (1864 - 1945)
*** Elisabeth Marie of Austria (1883 - 1963)
**** Franz Joseph of Windisch-Graetz (1904 - 1981)
**** Ernst of Windisch-Graetz (1905 - 1952)
**** Rudolph of Windisch-Graetz (1907 - 1939)
**** 4 - Stephanie of Windisch-Graetz (1909 - 2005)
***** 5 - Alvar d'Alcantara de Querrieu (1935 - 2019)
****** 6 - Patricia d'Alcantara de Querrieu (1957 - )
******* (7) Samuel De Backer
******** (8) Camille De Backer
******** Elise De Backer
******* Mathieu De Backer
******* Vincent De Backer
****** Frédéric d'Alcantara de Querrieu (1958 - )
****** Veronique d'Alcantara de Querrieu (1960 - )
***** Bjorn-Axel Björklund (1944 - 1995)
** Clementine of Belgium (1872 - 1955)
* Philippe of Belgium (1837 - 1905)
* 2 - Charlotte of Belgium (1840 - 1927)

 

[Somebody]

The Norwegian royal family is more recent and a lot easier - if they had picked Maud to become the reigning queen, instead of her husband to become their reigning king:

1. Queen Maud (reign: 1905-1938; born princess Maud of Wales)
2. King Olav (reign: 1938-1991; born prince Alexander of Denmark - he would have started his reign almost 20 years earlier; only son of '1')
3. Queen Ragnhild (reign: 1991-2012; born princess of Norway; eldest daughter of '2')
4. Queen Ingeborg (reign: 2012-now; born Ingeborg Lorentzen; eldest daughter of '3')

Crown princess Victoria (born: Victoria Ragna Lorentzen Ribeiro (b. 19 December 1988); only child of '4')
Hereditary prince (presumptive): Prince Frederik (born: Frederik Sven Lorentzen Falcão (b. 28 September 2016)'; only child of Crown princess)


Although they would probably have picked Carl/Haakon's sister instead of him, had they wanted to start a matrilineal system, so assuming they would still pick a child of Frederick VIII of Denmark and princess Louise of Sweden that would be:
1. Queen Louise (reign: 1905-1906; born princess of Denmark - married to prince Frederick of Schaumburg-Lippe)
2. Queen Marie Luise (reign: 1906-1938; with regency by her father until 1915 (18 yrs); born princess of Schaumburg-Lippe; married to prince Friedrich Sigismund of Prussia; eldest daughter of '1')
3. Queen Louise Victoria (reign: 1938-2009; born princess of Prussia; married to Hans Reinhold; only daughter of '2')
4. King Manfred (reign: 2009 - now; born Manfred Reinhold; only child of '3')

It seems Manfred has no children and his uncle prince Friedrich Karl of Prussia didn't seem to have children by either of his two wives either; so we would need to look for the descendants of queen Louise (1)'s second daughter to find the crown prince. Louise's second daughter and youngest child, princess Stephanie, married prince Viktor Adolf of Bentheim and Steinfurt; their first son died in the war; their second son prince Christian is the current fürst of Bentheim and Steinfurt (aged 96).

It seems, he doesn't have children either, so we would need to go to the descendants of Louise's son, prince Christian of Schaumburg-Lippe, for the 'hereditary prince(ss)'. Prince Christian married princess Feodora of Denmark; and their eldest daughter is: princess Marie of Schaumburg-Lippe (b. 1945), who would be 'second in line' to the Norwegian throne in this scenario. No, husband or children are reported, so in that case, it would be her brothers prince Wilhelm, prince Waldemar and prince Harald and their descendants who would be next in line - with princess Desiree (b. 1974; only daughter of prince Wilhelm; being the one in her generation to take over the throne at some point).

The pedigree for the above (as far as relevant for the line; including siblings):

1 - Princess Louise of Denmark (1875-1906)
* 2 - Princess Marie Luise Dagmar Bathildis Charlotte of Schaumburg-Lippe (1897-1938)
** 3 - Princess Louise Victoria Margaret Antoinette Sieglinde Alexandrine Stephanie Thyra of Prussia (1917-2009)
*** 4 - Manfred Reinhold
** Prince Friedrich Karl of Prussia (1919-2006)
* Prince Christian Nikolaus Wilhelm Friedrich Albert Ernst of Schaumburg-Lippe (1898–1974)
** (LoS - 3) Prince Wilhelm of Schaumburg-Lippe (1939)
*** Prince Christian of Schaumburg-Lippe (1971)
*** (LoS - 4) Princess Desiree of Schaumburg-Lippe (1974)
**** X Iuel
**** X Iuel
**** X Iuel
** Prince Waldemar of Schaumburg-Lippe (1940)
** (LoS - 2) Princess Marie of Schaumburg-Lippe (1945)
** Prince Harald of Schaumburg-Lippe (1948)
* Princess Stephanie Alexandra Hermine Thyra Xenia Bathildis Ingeborg of Schaumburg-Lippe (1899–1925). ** Prince Alexis of Bentheim and Steinfurt (1922–1943)
** (LoS-1) Prince Christian of Bentheim and Steinfurt (1923)
** Still-born son (1925)
** Son who lived a few hours (1925)

(LoS = Line of Succession)

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Dutch have practically a matrineal monarchy with 5 female heads of state with the current King as intermediate:

HM The Queen Dowager Emma, Regentess of the Kingdom (for 8 years)
|
HM Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands (for 58 years)
|
HM Queen Juliana of the Netherlands (for 32 years)
|
HM Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands (for 33 years)
|
The current male intermediate (for 7 years now)
|
HM Queen Catharina-Amalia of the Netherlands

 

[Countessmeout]

The Norwegian royal family is more recent and a lot easier - if they had picked Maud to become the reigning queen, instead of her husband to become their reigning king:

1. Queen Maud (reign: 1905-1938; born princess Maud of Wales)
2. King Olav (reign: 1938-1991; born prince Alexander of Denmark - he would have started his reign almost 20 years earlier; only son of '1')
3. Queen Ragnhild (reign: 1991-2012; born princess of Norway; eldest daughter of '2')
4. Queen Ingeborg (reign: 2012-now; born Ingeborg Lorentzen; eldest daughter of '3')

Crown princess Victoria (born: Victoria Ragna Lorentzen Ribeiro (b. 19 December 1988); only child of '4')
Hereditary prince (presumptive): Prince Frederik (born: Frederik Sven Lorentzen Falcão (b. 28 September 2016)'; only child of Crown princess)


Although they would probably have picked Carl/Haakon's sister instead of him, had they wanted to start a matrilineal system, so assuming they would still pick a child of Frederick VIII of Denmark and princess Louise of Sweden that would be:
1. Queen Louise (reign: 1905-1906; born princess of Denmark - married to prince Frederick of Schaumburg-Lippe)
2. Queen Marie Luise (reign: 1906-1938; with regency by her father until 1915 (18 yrs); born princess of Schaumburg-Lippe; married to prince Friedrich Sigismund of Prussia; eldest daughter of '1')
3. Queen Louise Victoria (reign: 1938-2009; born princess of Prussia; married to Hans Reinhold; only daughter of '2')
4. King Manfred (reign: 2009 - now; born Manfred Reinhold; only child of '3')

It seems Manfred has no children and his uncle prince Friedrich Karl of Prussia didn't seem to have children by either of his two wives either; so we would need to look for the descendants of queen Louise (1)'s second daughter to find the crown prince. Louise's second daughter and youngest child, princess Stephanie, married prince Viktor Adolf of Bentheim and Steinfurt; their first son died in the war; their second son prince Christian is the current fürst of Bentheim and Steinfurt (aged 96).

It seems, he doesn't have children either, so we would need to go to the descendants of Louise's son, prince Christian of Schaumburg-Lippe, for the 'hereditary prince(ss)'. Prince Christian married princess Feodora of Denmark; and their eldest daughter is: princess Marie of Schaumburg-Lippe (b. 1945), who would be 'second in line' to the Norwegian throne in this scenario. No, husband or children are reported, so in that case, it would be her brothers prince Wilhelm, prince Waldemar and prince Harald and their descendants who would be next in line - with princess Desiree (b. 1974; only daughter of prince Wilhelm; being the one in her generation to take over the throne at some point).

The reality is though that we can't honestly trace how any would have turned out matrilineally.


Marriages very much shape the line. And the choice of who they married would likely have been very different if it was a matrilineal dynasty. Harald had to fight to marry his commoner bride. If his older sister had been the heiress, would she really have been allowed to wed her current husband. Or her children have married those they have either? Very unlikely. There would have been the same rule about the women marrying someone of at least noble blood, as there were on the men.

If in the UK Anne had been heir and not her brothers, she would never have married Mark. She would have faced the same demand for an 'acceptable blue blood groom' as her brother faced in marrying Diana.

The Brits would be even harder to trace depending on how far back we said the matrilineal line started.

 

[Osipi]

Perhaps this isn't related to a matrilineal monarchy actually but there is something where the line from a mother to her offspring stands out. The Mitochondrial DNA.

Mitochondrial DNA is the small circular chromosome found inside mitochondria. These organelles found in cells have often been called the powerhouse of the cell. The mitochondria, and thus mitochondrial DNA, are passed almost exclusively from mother to offspring through the egg cell.

This the area where the female excells

 

[Somebody]

The reality is though that we can't honestly trace how any would have turned out matrilineally.


Marriages very much shape the line. And the choice of who they married would likely have been very different if it was a matrilineal dynasty. Harald had to fight to marry his commoner bride. If his older sister had been the heiress, would she really have been allowed to wed her current husband. Or her children have married those they have either? Very unlikely. There would have been the same rule about the women marrying someone of at least noble blood, as there were on the men.

If in the UK Anne had been heir and not her brothers, she would never have married Mark. She would have faced the same demand for an 'acceptable blue blood groom' as her brother faced in marrying Diana.

The Brits would be even harder to trace depending on how far back we said the matrilineal line started.

Of course, you are fully right, that marriage 'policies' would have been different had the daughter been the heir instead of the son... Nonetheless, it's a fun exercise to see what had happened if all other things had been equal (and all marriages approved).

 

[Somebody]

If the Luxembourg grand ducal house had decided to continue the matrilineal line after Grand Duchess Charlotte, it would have looked like this:

GD1 - GD Charlotte of Luxembourg (1896-1985)
* Jean (1921-2019)
* GD2 Elisabeth (1922-2011)
** GD3 Anna (Anita) of Hohenberg (1958)
** Gaetan de la Poeze, count of Harambure (1980)
** HGD Alix de la Poeze, countess of Harambure (1981)
*** Armel Fraye (2010)
*** Benedikt Fraye (2013)
*** (heir of HGD) Alexandra Fraye (2015)
*** Marie-Anastasie Fraye (2017)
** Gabriel de la Poeze, count of Harambure (1987)
** Raoul de la Poeze, count of Harambure (1989)
* Marie Adelaide (1924-2007)
* Marie Gabriele (1925)
* Charles (1927-1977)
* Alix (1929)

 

[JR76]

This was a fun thing to investigate. Starting with Gustav I and going through his female descendants from what I can see the present queen of Sweden would be Mrs Melita Legrum, born a princess of Leiningen. Given that she's childless her heir would be either her sister Princess Stephanie or a descendant of their aunt Freifrau Altburg von Erffa.

 

[Somebody]

So, what would it look like if Isabella II of Spain had been able to convince the government and the people that as a counter-weight to the Carlist movement, her succession would be matrilineal (and they had kept the throne all those years):

Queen Isabella II of Spain (1830-1904)
* Ferdinand (1850)
* 1- Isabel (1851–1931), Princess of Asturias
* María Cristina (1854)
* Alfonso XII (1857–1885)
* María de la Concepcion (1859–1861)
* María del Pilar (1861–1879)
* 2 - María de la Paz (1862–1946)
** Infante Ferdinand of Spain, Prince of Bavaria (1884–1958)
*** Infante Luis Alfonso, Prince of Bavaria (1906–1983)
*** Infante Jose Eugenio, Prince of Bavaria (1909–1966)
*** Infanta María de las Mercedes, Princess of Bavaria (1911–1953)
**** 4 - Princess Mariam de Bagration y de Baviera (1947)
***** (5) Mercedes Tamara Blanco y Bagration (1969)
***** Luis Alfonso Ortiz y Bagration (born 1983)
**** Prince Bagrat de Bagration y de Baviera (1949-2017)
*** Infanta María del Pilar, Princess of Bavaria (1912–1918)
** Prince Adalbert of Bavaria (1886–1970)
** 3- Princess Pilar of Bavaria (1891–1987) (unmarried)
* Francisco de Asís (1863)
* Eulalia de Asís de la Piedad (1864–1958), who married her cousin Infante Antonio, Duke of Galliera

So, Spain would be ruled by the royal house of Georgia

 

[Tatiana Maria]

We have never tried this in the history of mankind (unless you believe that Amazonesses existed).

I meant a monarchy where the throne is passed from mother to daughter.

The Lobedu tribe of South Africa has been reigned over by hereditary queens since 1800 (who are officially recognized in the republic of South Africa), and the normal succession is mother to daughter.

The reality is though that we can't honestly trace how any would have turned out matrilineally.


Marriages very much shape the line. And the choice of who they married would likely have been very different if it was a matrilineal dynasty. Harald had to fight to marry his commoner bride. If his older sister had been the heiress, would she really have been allowed to wed her current husband. Or her children have married those they have either? Very unlikely. There would have been the same rule about the women marrying someone of at least noble blood, as there were on the men.

If in the UK Anne had been heir and not her brothers, she would never have married Mark. She would have faced the same demand for an 'acceptable blue blood groom' as her brother faced in marrying Diana.

The Brits would be even harder to trace depending on how far back we said the matrilineal line started.

Very true. In addition, their lives would also have been shaped differently, with knock-on effects on their choice of spouse. For example, a "Princess Madeleine of Sweden" (that is, the only princess in her generation aside from the crown princess) would be the (only) spare to the Swedish throne, and as such a scenario where she moves abroad and marries a foreigner who is unwilling to become a working royal becomes much less plausible.

Other aspects of the lineages would also have differed in a matriarchal system, such as:

Whether princesses married or not. (Some younger daughters or cousins would have remained unmarried, possibly joining the church, as many younger sons did in reality. In other cases, a daughter who chose to remain unmarried in reality would have been expected to marry given her position in line to the throne.)

The ages at which princesses married. (There would have been fewer marriages of very young princesses, given that they would require more extensive education and training. On the other hand, there would have been more crown princesses, who would be expected to marry early enough to leave themselves generous time to produce an heiress.)

The number of children they bore. (A princess who bore all sons and no daughters would have a greater motivation to have further children, namely the goal of producing a daughter, compared to a princess who bore multiple daughters. The choice of husband could also potentially influence the number of children.)

The names given to their children. (The matrilineal great-grandson of queen of Norway would for example have a traditional Norwegian name, not a German one. Here, the choice of husband would also change any names chosen from the husband's family tree or homeland.)

In summary, I agree with you that the family lineages would be fascinatingly different as a result.

So, Spain would be ruled by the royal house of Georgia

Based on other precedent in the family, the Georgian pretender would probably have had to renounce his claims to foreign thrones as a precondition for his marriage to be approved.

 

[Emir]

Didn't the Kingdom of the Picts in what is now modern day Scotland practice matrilineal succession?