Prince Henrik's Plans for his Final Resting Place: August 2017

[M. Payton]

Beautifully stated Winnie, I do not want the world to become global at all, each country, each person has a right to their own heritage, history and beliefs of their country.

PH *did not* have to marry QM, there was no one forcing him to marry her, no shot gun wedding so to speak, so for all that comment that PG *gave up his life, his name, his religion, his language, his income, his life* that was *His Choice* to do so and he did that very willingly all on his own, His Choice. He does not speak Danish like the Danes do, he has never taken up the patronage where *equality* was the main issue, he if anything has been given a life of riches that he could not have achieved on his own from all that I have read about him.

He is a very ungrateful person by his own actions/behavior. What ever he accomplished in the past he has thrown it all out the window now. I just don't get this type of behavior being accepted in today's world. Giving him a pass is totally unexceptionable for that is rewarding him for treating his wife and the people of Denmark like they are nothing to him, he is above them in his mind. I have lost all respect for him and sure he does not know that........yet hopefully the people of Denmark will let him know that this is not how they would want a king consort of be appointed, by blackmailing QM.

 

[Terri Terri]

First of all, I will also like to thank Muhler for his excellent translations, background information and general information that he provides so generously. It really is a joy to have your input which makes this board the best to engage in meaningful debates and discussions.

Mbruno I totally see your perspective and agree with it. Unfortunately, Prince Henrik shot himself it the foot with his behaviour over the years and I'm afraid that his latest antics rule out that he will ever be seen with a great deal of respect.

I maintain that there is a direct correlation between Prince Henrik's behaviour and CP Frederik's increasing role as future King. I think that Henrik is very threatened by Frederik and cannot accept that he will have the title of king that Henrik badly wants for himself.

 

[Muhler]

Again, I don't want to condone the way PH is acting, especially with respect to his choice of resting place and giving embarassing interviews that become public. However, let's keep in mind that this is a man who had to give up his career as a diplomat, leave his country of birth, change his name, convert to another religion, and learn a foreign language, just to marry his wife who, truth be said, never attempted to give him the rank and precedence that QEII for example gave to Prince Philip , even if he is not called "king".

And in return he got a membership to an extremely exclusive club. That of royals.
He got a title.
He became in anything but Constitutional matters, the second highest ranking person in Denmark.
He got a life of privileges and got to see places even diplomats can only dream about.
He got a place in Danish history, not only as a royal consort, but the first ever male consort in DRF.
He potentially got the opportunity to make a difference way beyond that of a diplomat.
He got a life of VIP treatment wherever he goes.
By all accounts his marriage was happy enough for not even a hint of cheating ever being heard, about either of them.
He became a living ambassador for France, French culture and the French language for the rest of his life.
He got a chateau in France.
As for his religion, no one really cares as your religion is considered a very private matter in Denmark.
He got the opportunity to promote and further causes near and dear to his heart.
He has met countless interesting persons, from scientists, to statesmen to artists and authors.
He got the opportunity to learn about a new language and a new culture, something I should imagine would challenge and stimulate a man of his intellect.
He got the means to pursue a hobby of creating bronze sculptures.

- So yes, I can see he lost a lot in marrying QMII...

 

[M. Payton]

Brilliantly put, PH did not lose a darn thing in life.........not one penny, he gained a life that is beyond anything any of us here could ever dream of. He is so *selfish and egotistical* and I believe he will never change, so keep him in France and not return ........PH I believe will not be met with graciousness by the people. He looks down on the very people that give him all that he has.......truly disgusting.

PH bites the hand that feeds him and his ego...so take it away, his money, his Prince Consort Title and let him live a life without so he can learn to appreciate all that he has.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Does anyone know why Henrik contradicts her when TL says to make him King would require a change to the constitution? Is he ignoring reality or am I misunderstanding the situation? I thought it would require changing the constitution, which is something I would hope no serious government would consider doing. Henrik seems to be pinning all the responsibility on Margrethe.

There is an English translation of the Constitutional Act of Denmark.

Folketinget - The Constitutional Act of Denmark

The head of state is called "the King" in the Constitutional Act, and it is the government's position that this means that only the head of state may be called King.

Much has been said e.g. about QMII making her sons and their male line descendants "Counts of Monpezat", but that is no different from Queen Beatrix's sons being "jonkheer van Amsberg" and is merely a normal transmision of a title of nobility in paternal line (QMII simply recognized the title, incorporating it into the Danish nobility). I don't interpret it as the name Monpezat being officially added to the name of the Danish royal dynasty, as it should beBTW if the "centuries-old" tradition of naming dynasties according to patrilineal descendent were followed.

The issue is that Prince Henrik asked to be titled King in the name of gender equality, not patrilineal descent, even though he does not support titular gender equality in general. (As an aside, it is a centuries-old tradition as well to name dynasties in Europe according to maternal descent, on occasion.)

Q: Over time it has become very modern that the women take the lead.
PH: “Modern? It has got nothing to do with that. We are talking about something that goes back ten thousand years… When you are married you must have the same rights”.

What was Prince Henrik referencing? Gender equality does not go back ten thousand years, and neither do monarchies.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

And in return he got a membership to an extremely exclusive club. That of royals.
He got a title.
He became in anything but Constitutional matters, the second highest ranking person in Denmark.
He got a life of privileges and got to see places even diplomats can only dream about.
He got a place in Danish history, not only as a royal consort, but the first ever male consort in DRF.
He potentially got the opportunity to make a difference way beyond that of a diplomat.
He got a life of VIP treatment wherever he goes.
By all accounts his marriage was happy enough for not even a hint of cheating ever being heard, about either of them.
He became a living ambassador for France, French culture and the French language for the rest of his life.
He got a chateau in France.
As for his religion, no one really cares as your religion is considered a very private matter in Denmark.
He got the opportunity to promote and further causes near and dear to his heart.
He has met countless interesting persons, from scientists, to statesmen to artists and authors.
He got the opportunity to learn about a new language and a new culture, something I should imagine would challenge and stimulate a man of his intellect.
He got the means to pursue a hobby of creating bronze sculptures.

- So yes, I can see he lost a lot in marrying QMII...

THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not for one moment would the majority of people think Prince Henrik lost out on marrying the then Princess Margrethe.

He got the opportunity to promote and further causes near and dear to his heart.

Each and every person who has married into a royal family has taken the opportunity to do this. This even includes The Princess Consort of Morocco, who is the first consort to a Moroccan King to have a HRH title and be in the public eye.

If Prince Henrik is so upset with the gender inequalities he is experiencing, then use your rank, title and status to help the cause FOR ALL.

On a side note, I researched the etymology of King and Queen. King derives from "cyning", meaning leader or ruler. There isn't gender-specifics with the title either. Since Royal history shows a patriarchal hierarchy, the affiliation that a male ruler is king was established. In reality, it isn't. Queen basically means wife. Old English specialised it to mean "wife of the ruler".

I would actually reserve Crown Prince/Crown Princess as titles of a consort to a sovereign as that makes more sense - Prince/Princess means "first man/woman", i.e. like a First Lady to a male President. I would also reserve "Majesty" to the sovereign too.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Again, I don't want to condone the way PH is acting, especially with respect to his choice of resting place and giving embarassing interviews that become public. However, let's keep in mind that this is a man who had to give up his career as a diplomat, leave his country of birth, change his name, convert to another religion, and learn a foreign language, just to marry his wife who, truth be said, never attempted to give him the rank and precedence that QEII for example gave to Prince Philip , even if he is not called "king".

You're saying that as though it wasn't 100% his own choice to give up all those things to marry her. No one forced him to do that. He knew what he went into when he married QMII and what he went into didn't include the title of king. If you're telling me that Henrik married QMII solely to become a king (which I assume you are since you seem to imply that all the things the poor man has given up at the very least should earn him that title), then sorry not sorry, Henrik didn't read up on his homework because it doesn't work like that here and no one's to blame for that but himself.

I also absolutely refuse to feel even remotely sorry for a man as privileged as Henrik tirelessly moaning about not being king. He should be ashamed of himself, quite frankly. He lives one of the most privileged, carefree and secure lives you can live on this earth yet he still has the nerves to complain about a stupid title – and for what? Because he can't stand the thought of being inferior to a woman. I'm gonna be real fancy and pull out a Kourtney Kardashian quote: There's people that are dying. Henrik should take note of that.

 

[carina_a]

I suppose it works the other way too? For the man? See a few posts earlier in which the many and productive cooperations of this man and this woman are mentioned. Nothing "abusive" at all. When a man honestly feels he has zero comma zero to say in his own home, when even his own son is higher in the pecking order, visible for all and everyone, then it can be hurting, maybe bordering public humiliation and abuse.

He admitted himself that he decides things at home. Go read.
And there is nothing wrong with him being No.3 in official capacities. That's what happens when you are not born royal, and not in the line of succession. Does he not understand the word CROWN PRINCE? It's not like Frederik was still a child and could not perform the duties. He was a grown-ass man. Pure whining.

Prince Henrik, a Prince Consort for 30 years, a proud Frenchman and affiching himself as the Pater Familias, had to read in Danish press that the Levée was been hosted by Prince Frederik. The Prince's objections were more or less not taken au sérieux and an angered Henrik left Denmark, to go to the Château de Caÿx in France. Like now, also then he was awaited by media and he said: "After more than 30 years in Denmark, they still give the impression that I am number three, that my son has replaced me. No... I refuse to be part of that game. I am the number two. I have to be the number two. I am the Queen's consort. You can not just change the hierarchy because it suits someone better!"

How is that even relevant here? Are you going to say that French people are entitled to feel superior to others?

And he's the one trying to change things. How ironic.

More or less it all boiled down to the idea that this whole episode just was a reflection of the Danish people's unwillingness to accept him since he gave up his religion, his nationality, his job and his language, even changing his name, to marry their Queen. Against a reporter from BT the Prince stated that he felt "degraded all the time, disappointed all the time, looked over and walked over in such a way that my self-respect is destroyed".

I don't need to repeat the list of things he received in marrying QM. So ungrateful. Maybe he feels all the bad things because that's all he can think of in his mind.

It is all to easy to paint the one side as "good" and the other as "bad'. For myself I have the feeling that the so "equal" Danes indeed have shoved the Prince away as an irrelevance. And for years and years the anger, the frustration, the pressure has been building and building. All this has a reason and it is not all from yesterday but started long ago.

Again, not a valid excuse for his behaviour. Just because it's not new doesn't mean it's not bad??
I feel like you should really re-examine yourself and your unfounded bias towards the Danish people, and not SO QUICK to jump to PH's defense.

 

[duke of poliganc]

He admitted himself that he decides things at home. Go read.
And there is nothing wrong with him being No.3 in official capacities. That's what happens when you are not born royal, and not in the line of succession. Does he not understand the word CROWN PRINCE? It's not like Frederik was still a child and could not perform the duties. He was a grown-ass man. Pure whining.

I never saw a crown princess who will be a monarch in her own right take a higher precedence from the consort of a reigning king.

mathilde would never courtesy to crown princess victoria or her own daughter who are both born royals and first in the line of succession now but the other way around is the reality.

so a female consort is number one after her spouse but a male consort is number 2 after his spouse and her heir!

 

[duchessrachel]

Interesting that PH admits that he decides everything at home. So that means that he is not pushed aside on family decisions, etc., as some here have intimated or implied. He is the "head" of his personal family. He just can't get over the fact that he is still a subject of her Majesty the Queen of Denmark and not of equal rank in the government even if he is married to her. The more I read about this sad situation, the more I admire the sometime outspoken but always extremely loyal husband of Queen Elizabeth II. Have to wonder what they are privately thinking.

I imagine Prince Philip has said a few choice phrases about this situation.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

You're saying that as though it wasn't 100% his own choice to give up all those things to marry her. No one forced him to do that. He knew what he went into when he married QMII and what he went into didn't include the title of king. If you're telling me that Henrik married QMII solely to get the title of king (which I assume since you seem to imply that all those things the poor man has given up at the very least should earn him that title), then sorry not sorry, Henrik didn't read up on his homework because it doesn't work like that here and no one's to blame for that but himself.

I also absolutely refuse to feel even remotely sorry for a man as privileged as Henrik tirelessly moaning about not being king. He should be ashamed of himself, quite frankly. He lives one of the most privileged, carefree and secure lives you can live on this earth yet he still has the nerves to complain about a stupid title – and for what? Because he can't stand the thought of being inferior to a woman. I'm gonna be real fancy and pull out a Kourtney Kardashian quote: There's people that are dying. Henrik could learn something from that.

You have articulated exactly what I have been trying to define in my head Archduchess Zelia. Thank you

My Father-in-Law, who is 2 years younger than PH, wasn't happy that I am introduced as Dr <married surname> instead of Mrs <married surname>. My Dr title, in my FIL's and my social circle, is regarded of higher standing than my husband's "Mr" title. My husband, on the other hand, couldn't care less (like Prince Daniel with CP Victoria). In actual fact, he gets angry when I'm referred to as Mrs CrownPrincessJava (my hubby is a sweetie )

And I forgive you for you Kardashian quote ?

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I also want to thank Muhler for his reporting, translations and opinions.

I agree with the majority of posters here-I cannot feel sorry for the man. He does seem to be the head of the house in his own home/family. So boo hoo, his son-The Crown Prince-has precedence over him on State occasions when QM is not present. That would be the case even if Henrik's title was King Consort. He has an unreasonable fixation about title and is not thinking clearly.

Prince Henrik would be making a better case for gender equality if it wasn't so obviously all about him and wanting to be "equal" (read superior) to his wife and son who are/will be the Head of State and have no equal.

 

[M. Payton]

I never saw a crown princess who will be a monarch in her own right take a higher precedence from the consort of a reigning king.

mathilde would never courtesy to crown princess victoria or her own daughter who are both born royals and first in the line of succession now but the other way around is the reality.

so a female consort is number one after her spouse but a male consort is number 2 after his spouse and her heir!

Shouldn't that be *after his spouse and their heir*, after all it takes 2 people to make a baby or am I missing something here? And yes if a *real man* is the prince consort and there is a male child who will be a crown prince like Frederik, then the Prince Consort if in his right mind would be *proud, thrilled and delighted* that their child is the heir, and not be acting out like a jealous fool that PH is doing. He helped with the up bringing of the male child and there for should be a proud father and take great pleasure in seeing how well that child will do his duties to his country someday.......not with PH........it must all be about HIM only, the heck with his wife, QM, or this children or anyone else that gets in the way of what he wants........be da**d of the world, he is here, let everything and everybody bow down to PH for he is the most important of all........NOT! How selfish can he get, can he go any lower then he already has.......waiting for the next fit of temper to take place ......??

 

[duke of poliganc]

Shouldn't that be *after his spouse and their heir*, after all it takes 2 people to make a baby or am I missing something here? And yes if a *real man* is the prince consort and there is a male child who will be a crown prince like Frederik, then the Prince Consort if in his right mind would be *proud, thrilled and delighted* that their child is the heir, and not be acting out like a jealous fool that PH is doing. He helped with the up bringing of the male child and there for should be a proud father and take great pleasure in seeing how well that child will do his duties to his country someday.......not with PH........it must all be about HIM only, the heck with his wife, QM, or this children or anyone else that gets in the way of what he wants........be da**d of the world, he is here, let everything and everybody bow down to PH for he is the most important of all........NOT! How selfish can he get, can he go any lower then he already has.......waiting for the next fit of temper to take place ......??

No it shouldn't be *after his spouse and their heir* the crown prince is going to inherit the title off a monarch not the title of a monarch and a prince consort.


He could be a proud father and also think he should have the precedence a female consort have while his wife is still the the monarch.

QEQM did courtesy to QEII after she was crowned but when she was still princess elizabeth although she was going to be the future queen QEQM would have never accepted the idea of her doing a courtesy to QEII while king george was alive.

Who wouldn't like to be a selfless, modest and poised person! unfortunately this things aren't human instincts but contrary the opposite is. some people have the mentality that make them control this things while other don't have the mentality to do so.

 

[M. Payton]

You said:
*so a female consort is number one after her spouse but a male consort is number 2 after his spouse and her heir!*

I am saying that *after his spouse and their heir* which means that I am talking about not just *her* heir but *their* heir as that means they have had the child, an *heir* together. I think there is a misunderstanding here that is all.
And I am not talking about who courtesy's to whom right now. The issue is what is going on now, a man who has had a life of unbelievable luxury, a man who is No. 2 in the land, a man who brow beats his wife and tries to blackmail her into giving him something that he does not deserve period.

No person on this earth deserves to be rewarded for the treatment of bullying their spouse, and yes he has done that very thing for he has shown that in his interviews to the media, that you can not take back period. Why is it so hard to understand that when you treat someone you say you love with such total disrespect and disregard for the way PH has treated his wife and his Queen.

I do think I live in this day and age for this type of behavior is uncalled for and totally unacceptable behavior. It might of been acceptable back in the dark ages of history but not today.

And most women today would never put up with being treated the way PH has treated his wife the queen of Denmark and the people of Denmark all over a meaningless title.

QM represents the entire nation, everyone, so in the way PH is treating her shows how he is also treating all the people of Denmark for she is a very well loved queen. You can not have one with out the other.....he married both and he knew that going into the marriage.......*No Excuses are acceptable*.

Why is it hard to understand bad behavior from PH?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[...] in OTHER Countries,in centuries old systems,long pre-dating both oneself and 'modern thought'. [...]

Where does that argument fit, in making successions gender-neutral (almost all European monarchies), in lifting the ban on marrying Catholics (UK), in allowing partner choices which were impossible before (Sweden), in facilitating abdications (Japan, Spain), etc.?

Shoving away Prince Henrik's grievance about the difference in titulature between male and female consorts can not be justified with this argument. If you use this argument, then you could equally be against gender-neutral succession, or against Catholic partners for British successors because "it has been so for centuries".

You said:
[...]

And most women today would never put up with being treated the way PH has treated his wife the queen of Denmark and the people of Denmark all over a meaningless title.

[...]

It is visible that Magrethe and Henrik, both complex and strong-willed characters, love each other to bits. For you it is "a meaningless title", for Henrik it is not, and for the Danish Government and Parliament it is also not "meaningless" either, otherwhise they would have made him King Consort indeed.

Prince Félix of Luxembourg, Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, Prince Philip of the United Kingdom and Prince Claus of the Netherlands never had to give precedence to their own eldest child as long as they were Consort to the Sovereign.

In 1951 Queen Elizabeth issued an Order in Council in which she made sure that her spouse has "place, pre-eminence and precedence" next to her "on all occasions and in all meetings", unless otherwise provided by Act of Parliament. Making sure that, as long as she is alive, Prince Philip would never be outranked by Prince Charles.

 

[M. Payton]

Prince Félix of Luxembourg, Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, Prince Philip of the United Kingdom and Prince Claus of the Netherlands never had to give precedence to their own eldest child as long as they were Consort to the Sovereign.

In 1951 Queen Elizabeth issued an Order in Council in which she made sure that her spouse has "place, pre-eminence and precedence" next to her "on all occasions and in all meetings", unless otherwise provided by Act of Parliament. Making sure that, as long as she is alive, Prince Philip would never be outranked by Prince Charles.

As for the title King Consort, in *meaningless title*, it is an empty title, there is no power behind it, nothing to get this disturbed over like he is doing. It means nothing which has been stated here.

And this thread is not about any other royal family which is always brought up, this is the country of Denmark, not England nor the Netherlands nor anywhere else. This is not a basket of mixed fruit so to speak, and what one country does another country does not have to do. Hopefully each country can have their own history, heritage, beliefs and customs without this endless comparison. We the world are not global yet in that everything has to be the same....it gets very frustrating when someone is reading and learning about one country and other countries are thrown into the mix......

 

[Muhler]

That's very well put, M. Payton.

As a Dane I'm really not that interested in the traditions of other monarchies in this respect, nor in how things were handled centuries ago.
The DRF have their traditions and their titles and that's good enough for me.

That doesn't mean it's not an interesting thing to debate, it is, but right now it is not relevant, nor will it become relevant to bestow a new title to PH. That ship has sailed.

The Prime Minister has just commented on this, expressing his sadness of behalf of the DRF, and voiced his very strong support for QMII, as well as called for the privacy of the DRF to be respected, not least the privacy of PH.

I didn't hear clearly what he said, but a written quote is sure to surface very soon.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Prince Félix of Luxembourg, Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, Prince Philip of the United Kingdom and Prince Claus of the Netherlands never had to give precedence to their own eldest child as long as they were Consort to the Sovereign.

In 1951 Queen Elizabeth issued an Order in Council in which she made sure that her spouse has "place, pre-eminence and precedence" next to her "on all occasions and in all meetings", unless otherwise provided by Act of Parliament. Making sure that, as long as she is alive, Prince Philip would never be outranked by Prince Charles.

#1-Queen Elizabeth II was not yet Queen in 1951.
#2- "place, pre-eminence and precedence NEXT to her on all occasions and in all meetings"
If QM had issued such an order- Prince Henrik still would not have taken precedence over his son at the New Year's Event as QM did not attend for Henrik to be "next" to her.

Not that we can change anything especially those of us not living in a country with a monarch, but I do think there is validity in discussing titles, roles, HM vs HRH, etc. of a monarch's spouse. Perhaps we could have a thread elsewhere as it is interesting.

 

[melina premiere]

M Payton, it is well said, each country has his tradition, his history, no need to compare a country to an another

When He married Margreth, Henrik knew that She will become the queen of Denmark and he will be prince Consort. there was no surprise. But it was so nice for him to become a prince and after the prince consort

He received all from Denmark, the title of prince consort, the chateau of Caix that Denmark bought for him and the furniture of the chateau , his children will be Comte de Montpezat . I think it is enough for a very small french hobereau of France who was in 1966 only 3th diplomat at the embassy of France in england.
And he received all the love of Margreth who loves him for two and who forgives him all..
It is a shame that he did a scandale for a title of ' king consort' which will bring him nothing

 

[Muhler]

Here is what the Prime Minister said earlier today: Lars Løkke: 'Det er ikke nogen nem periode i Kongehuset' | BT Danmark - www.bt.dk

Jeg har stor respekt for og kærlighed til den kongelige familie. Det er ikke nogen nem periode i kongehuset.- Regentparrets interne forhold vil jeg ikke kommentere på. Men blot opfordre til, at vi alle respekterer familiens ret til privatliv, ikke mindst for prins Henrik, som jo er gået på pension.
- Dronningen yder en beundringsværdig indsats for det land, hun elsker så højt,

"I have great respect for and love for the royal family. It's not an easy time in DRF.
I will not comment on the internal relations of the Regent Couple. But simply call for all of us to respect the right of the family for a private life, not least for Prince Henrik, who has retired.
The Queen is doing ad admirable job for the country she loves so much".

- I notice that the PM, just like the leading politician Thulesen Dahl the other day, is expressing a very strong support for QMII, while not praising PH, not even for his past deeds.
I find it interesting that the PM calls for the privacy of the DRF to be respected, not least that of PH.
To me that can only be interpreted as a call to the press about backing off, and perhaps be less keen to bring PH in a situation where he will be ranting away. In short: leave him alone and don't ask him questions.

That IMO is an indication that PH is suffering from some kind of age-related mental condition. Alternatively it could also mean: Don't give the old grumpy-head airtime!

-----------------------

I think it's a good suggestion O H Anglophile has put forward, i.e. to open a new thread where the titles of future consorts can be discussed in general. Because it is a valid discussion for the future.
Also because I must admit that I have found some of the arguments brought forward here somewhat inflammatory if not downright bordering on insulting towards both QMII, (which I think that is both unfair and undeserved) and also towards the Danes in general. While at the same time ignoring the explanations, cultural reasons and public views that have repeatedly been presented as to why PH cannot have the title he coverts so much and why PH was not treated incorrectly at the now infamous New Year Court.

 

[Mbruno]

And this thread is not about any other royal family which is always brought up, this is the country of Denmark, not England nor the Netherlands nor anywhere else. This is not a basket of mixed fruit so to speak, and what one country does another country does not have to do. Hopefully each country can have their own history, heritage, beliefs and customs without this endless comparison. We the world are not global yet in that everything has to be the same....it gets very frustrating when someone is reading and learning about one country and other countries are thrown into the mix......

From the establishment of the modern hereditary monarchy in Denmark (in 1660, I believe) until the change to the Act of Succession in 1953, only males could inherit the Danish throne. Queen Margrethe II, who ascended the throne in 1972, is therefore the first reigning queen in the history of the modern Danish monarchy , which also makes Prince Henrik the first modern consort of a reigning queen. So, with all due respect to you and to Muhler, I submit that, prior to QMII, Denmark actually had no tradition regarding the naming of the consort of the reigning queen., simply because there was no such thing in Denmark.

What the Danes did with respect to Henrik's titles, which I believe the Court itself acknowledged the first time Henrik questioned his rank, was actually to adopt the precedent of other countries, namely post-18th century Britain and the Netherlands, where the husband of the reigning queen was only a prince. Incidentallly, that happens to be the (relatively recent) precedent that is now used by all European monarchies apparently, including those such as Spain where, in the past, the husband of a reigning queen was called "king".

 

[Bine221]

Earlier in this thread a fellow poster snubbed the non-attendance of Prince Henrik at the Royal Wedding in Amsterdam, 02-02-2002. But exactly one month before that major event there was a public clash at the Danish Court: the Prince's anger was sparked when Queen Margrethe became ill and was unable to host the traditional New Year Levée of politicians, diplomats and military. The Levée went ahead, but when it came to the passage (the greetings), it was not The Prince Consort taking the honneurs for the Queen, no... his son Prince Frederik played the "host".

Sorry, but CROWN Prince Frederic is the next reigning Monarch in line of the throne..... and not PH
BYe Bine

 

[Muhler]

Mbruno,

PH is the first male consort - ever - in the DRF.
QMII is the first female monarch - ever - in the DRF.

QMI was Regent on behalf of her son and later stepson. She was however politically speaking the most influential and powerful monarch that not only Denmark but the whole of Scandinavia has ever had.
Which is the reason why she is officially known as Queen Margrethe I. She earned that title, even if she only got it after her death.

Because Mbruno, you seem to miss the point.
It's pretty theoretical to talk about what was and how it is in other countries, because AFAIK none of the consorts who got a title as king consort behaved like PH. None of them sulked in public or blackmailed their wives publicly.
The realities are that PH is the first male consort in the DRF. He's a trailblazer. PH is the first page in a new blank book.
After he the first time pointed out that he felt sidelined, he got the title of Prince Consort, which at the time was accepted and indeed thought deserved by the public.
Then a few years ago, he blew it. He wanted to be king. There was no talk about king consort, it was king. That was categorically dismissed, not only by QMII but also the people and the politicians.

That was as far as people were ready to go in regards to reforms and gender equality within the DRF.
Although PH had increased his popularity remarkably and even managed to remain pretty popular after this, the vast majority of Danes and the politicians simply did not think he deserved it. It wasn't so much a question of the wording in the Constitution (even though it annoyed the politicians to no end!) it was PH's credit score that was simply too low.

This time PH has hammered in the final nail in that coffin. There is no way the people will accept him with a title as king consort, even if he by some remote chance actually got it.
He has embarrassed the tribe and unless he no longer knows what he is doing, the tribe will not forgive him!
To me this is not an academic discussion, it's about feelings.
PH has embarrassed my country, he has embarrassed my Queen, my royal family and he has embarrassed me!
The realities are that PH blew it, big time!

Had he played his cards differently, he might actually have been made king consort with public support. Now he may even have ruined it for the next male consort as well.
Which of current up-coming male consorts will now even dare whisper "king consort" for fear of being compared to PH?

Under the British system, the protocol changes depending on the circumstances and whether the spouse is alone or together with other members of the BRF. In that case a title as king consort could make some sense.
Under the Danish system the spouses, PH, Mary and our Marie, always holds the same position as the one they are married to in regards to the protocol.
Example: Joachim, even though he's a prince of the blood and in the line of succession, will strictly speaking have to bow his head to Mary, even if she is alone, because she holds the same position as her husband.
And that's why most of us here in DK, simply cannot understand PH's problem.

ADDED: Right now I'm pretty fed up with PH and this mess he has created!! And a bit tired as well I think.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

You're saying that as though it wasn't 100% his own choice to give up all those things to marry her. No one forced him to do that. He knew what he went into when he married QMII and what he went into didn't include the title of king. If you're telling me that Henrik married QMII solely to become a king (which I assume you are since you seem to imply that all the things the poor man has given up at the very least should earn him that title), then sorry not sorry, Henrik didn't read up on his homework because it doesn't work like that here and no one's to blame for that but himself.

I also absolutely refuse to feel even remotely sorry for a man as privileged as Henrik tirelessly moaning about not being king. He should be ashamed of himself, quite frankly. He lives one of the most privileged, carefree and secure lives you can live on this earth yet he still has the nerves to complain about a stupid title – and for what? Because he can't stand the thought of being inferior to a woman. I'm gonna be real fancy and pull out a Kourtney Kardashian quote: There's people that are dying. Henrik should take note of that.

For me, that says it all. ALL. This was a highly intelligent worldly diplomat. No one held a gun to his head and forced him to sign away his identity, his religion, or his prerogatives.

He needs to sleep in the bed he made for himself or stay at Caix permanently and rest in an entirely different bed altogether.

Poor Frederik! There must be nothing so awkward and painful as having a father who is envious and perhaps resentful of you.

 

[Osipi]

Regardless of our opinions of whether or not Henrik's claims are valid or the rantings of a man devoid of his senses, the crux of the matter is that the way he's gone about trying to prove that he's been disrespected and that there is something that desperately needs to be "fixed" and going public with it and making his thoughts known (very vocally) is only serving to work against him.

There are more ways to get what one wants if they are absolutely serious about it. Studying the Danish constitution would be a start and perhaps enlisting the services of a constitutional expert to develop a case for his arguments would be one way. Ranting, raving, bullying and threatening to hold his breath until he's blue in the face to get what he wants are hallmarks of a tantrum with no legitimate basis behind it and cannot be taken seriously.

How Henrik is presenting himself now is "I want". He is not presenting a case that "I want because...." with legitimate, valid reasoning behind it. Its all in how you say things sometimes.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

For anyone interested in expanding the conversation about the titles, etc of the spouse of a monarch, I started a thread in the "General Royal Discussion" under "Royal Ceremony and Protocol" named "Titles and styles of monarch's spouses."

 

[ladongas]

PH, despite his obvious mental issues, has had over 40 years to settle this issue with the Queen and the Danish people. An efficient and well-thought out 'campaign' in the early years might have succeeded. But he failed in bringing and concluding his 'case' in a timely manner.

Under the doctrine of laches (which dates back many centuries in continental law), you can't wait decades to bring your grievance to the forefront. "You snooze, you lose" is a light-hearted way to define laches.

I pity him and his family.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Regardless of our opinions of whether or not Henrik's claims are valid or the rantings of a man devoid of his senses, the crux of the matter is that the way he's gone about trying to prove that he's been disrespected and that there is something that desperately needs to be "fixed" and going public with it and making his thoughts known (very vocally) is only serving to work against him.

There are more ways to get what one wants if they are absolutely serious about it. Studying the Danish constitution would be a start and perhaps enlisting the services of a constitutional expert to develop a case for his arguments would be one way. Ranting, raving, bullying and threatening to hold his breath until he's blue in the face to get what he wants are hallmarks of a tantrum with no legitimate basis behind it and cannot be taken seriously.

How Henrik is presenting himself now is "I want". He is not presenting a case that "I want because...." with legitimate, valid reasoning behind it. Its all in how you say things sometimes.

He was a diplomat and presumably learned the art of diplomacy. But now he is behaving like a spoiled brat who wants his own way. That is what makes me think there is something not quite right about how his brain is functioning. He may not have Alzheimer's but I do think there is something affecting his judgement. Many older people develop some impairment of brain function even if they don't have Alzheimer's or clinical dementia. That's why older people are frequently the targets of con artists. It doesn't seem like he can present a rational argument, he just knows what he wants and he is not getting it.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Sorry, but CROWN Prince Frederic is the next reigning Monarch in line of the throne..... and not PH
BYe Bine

Sorry, now you are in correcting mode, I can do it as well: it is FrederiK and not Frederic.

[...]
He needs to sleep in the bed he made for himself or stay at Caix permanently and rest in an entirely different bed altogether.
[...]

Not at all. Is that not the private business of the married couple Margrethe and Henri where he (or she, or they) has (have) to sleep?