General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 6: January 2021 - December 2023

[tommy100]

I do feel sorry for the family for it seems, now matter how cushy the role Joachim lands may well be, that his mother and the court has a huge influence on his life. They don't want him doing commercial work but don't want to give him royal work to do either. I can't believe there isn't a role for him in Denmark even if it is a 9-5 job somewhere.

 

[Prinsara]

I do feel sorry for the family for it seems, now matter how cushy the role Joachim lands may well be, that his mother and the court has a huge influence on his life. They don't want him doing commercial work but don't want to give him royal work to do either. I can't believe there isn't a role for him in Denmark even if it is a 9-5 job somewhere.

But Joachim, specifically, said to the press — in unusually enthusiastic terms — that he really, really, really wanted this job. Assuming, of course, that it is this particular job that he's now got.

And Joachim is not particularly good at dissembling, to the media or to other people. So why are people willing to accept the idea stated by him (and Marie) that "it wasn't our choice" means they were forced out (when it could have equally meant "we still like Denmark, we didn't leave because we hated it, please don't think that"), but not that, stated by him, he is gung-ho to go to the US? Even if he is being railroaded, it doesn't mean he can't like the idea of this destination a lot more.

Not everything about him has to be a negative conspiracy.

 

[Muhler]

It is indeed a distinct possibility that Joachim really likes his job, has grown into it and is good at it - that has certainly been claimed in the press time and time again.
The DK defense industry is pretty delighted with him going to USA, judging from comments in the media.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/f...rins-joachim-i-ny-stilling-han-goer-en-kaempe

And if you are good at something - or discover your are good at something, you may see another similar job as a challenge to look forward to.

It has been claimed a number of times in the past that Joachim would have made a good diplomat. I can't say of course because I don't know.
However, being folksy, funny and even popular may not be traits that impress diplomats and similar people in these circles. Professionalism I think carry a lot more weight.

Our Marie has lived in USA for several years, up to 9/11, so adjusting may be less of a problem for her than for Joachim.

And as for Princess Elisabeth. Well she worked in the Foreign Ministry and many if not most who are employed there will at some point and at least once be deployed abroad.

I wonder what would have happened had Joachim pursued a diplomatic career, rather then the detour with Schackenborg?

 

[kalnel]

I think the greatest disservice to Joachim was that he didn't get much of an education. Without a relevant university degree, his job prospects and earning potential are crippled.

In Washington, Marie will be what's known as a "wife of," if she doesn't have her own career, which can be difficult for some. As far as her knowing the culture better, I'm not so sure. She lived in New York as a student for a few months in the 90s -- that is worlds away from Washington diplomatic circles today.

(..)

 

[Kataryn]

It has been claimed a number of times in the past that Joachim would have made a good diplomat. I can't say of course because I don't know.
However, being folksy, funny and even popular may not be traits that impress diplomats and similar people in these circles. Professionalism I think carry a lot more weight.

Our Marie has lived in USA for several years, up to 9/11, so adjusting may be less of a problem for her than for Joachim.

I wonder what would have happened had Joachim pursued a diplomatic career, rather then the detour with Schackenborg?

It seems Joachim was just not ready to become a Danish farmer (including all that was for Schakenborg, including his studies). Yes, who knows, maybe he dreamt of a life as Danish diplomat first in Paris (where lots of good diplomats came from) and then in Washington, the most important city of the West. While Marie surely is successful working for charities, Danish interests and as his hostess. And I guess for their minor children it's easier in Washinton than Paris on being diminish from Prince/ss to Count/ess. The Americans love European nobility and real Danish nobles are considered something upper class, no matter what their rank.

I think the greatest disservice to Joachim was that he didn't get much of an education. Without a relevant university degree, his job prospects and earning potential are crippled.

He finished his studies in agrar science because he was considered the heir of Schakenborg. There sinply was no other choice, but you should understand (at least in Germany it would be)that these studies are for the managers of professional estates, the one necessary to become CEO of large coorperations like ARLA. And along his management of the estate he made a career out of being an officer of the reserve (including several difficult courses for officers) and finished the two-year-course in France with success, the one who is considered the top course for officers, making it possible to give him the title of brigadier general. Not because he is a prince but because he was qualified.

 

[kalnel]

He finished his studies in agrar science because he was considered the heir of Schakenborg. There sinply was no other choice, but you should understand (at least in Germany it would be)that these studies are for the managers of professional estates, the one necessary to become CEO of large coorperations like ARLA. And along his management of the estate he made a career out of being an officer of the reserve (including several difficult courses for officers) and finished the two-year-course in France with success, the one who is considered the top course for officers, making it possible to give him the title of brigadier general. Not because he is a prince but because he was qualified.

I understand, but those qualifications are not known or helpful in professional or executive circles, at least in the United States. His title would open some doors, but he’d have a tough time building a career outside the Danish military or diplomatic corps without a university degree. And at his age, it would be almost impossible.

 

[Silverpot]

I understand, but those qualifications are not known or helpful in professional or executive circles, at least in the United States. His title would open some doors, but he’d have a tough time building a career outside the Danish military or diplomatic corps without a university degree. And at his age, it would be almost impossible.

Joachim's education in agrar science sounds like the one Prince Carl Philip has and that one is a university batchelors degree.

 

[Prinsara]

I understand, but those qualifications are not known or helpful in professional or executive circles, at least in the United States. His title would open some doors, but he’d have a tough time building a career outside the Danish military or diplomatic corps without a university degree. And at his age, it would be almost impossible.

If that were the case, then no one in the military would ever be able to transition to civilian life, whereas the reality is that honorable military experience is always noted and usually considered a big plus on a resume.

And that's assuming Joachim wants to get out of the royal public sector. Which as of now, it appears he does not. We're not talking Princess Margaret-levels of 'intelligent and sadly, tragically uneducated' here.

 

[kalnel]

If that were the case, then no one in the military would ever be able to transition to civilian life, whereas the reality is that honorable military experience is always noted and usually considered a big plus on a resume.

And that's assuming Joachim wants to get out of the royal public sector. Which as of now, it appears he does not. We're not talking Princess Margaret-levels of 'intelligent and sadly, tragically uneducated' here.

Honorable military service is a commendable thing, and it opens a lot of doors for enlisted personnel who don't have college degrees. But, officers in the U.S. military (except for warrant officers) nearly all have bachelor's degrees or higher. (Things may be different in other countries, of course.)

Joachim doesn't have this credential, so other than his name and connections, he would not have an easy time finding or qualifying for a high-paying professional job.

 

[Magali]

What is the level of Joachim’s agricultural education? In the Netherlands agricultural sciences is considered university level (BA, MA). Don’t know about Denmark.

 

[Somebody]

What is the level of Joachim’s agricultural education? In the Netherlands agricultural sciences is considered university level (BA, MA). Don’t know about Denmark.

In the Netherlands it is possible to do agricultural education at VMBO (lowest secondary level for students aged 12-16), MBO (vocational education), HBO (non-academic Bachelor) or university level (academic Bachelor or Master). I assume most countries offer agricultutal education at various levels.

Given that it is indicated that Joachim didn'tgraduate with a Bachelor's degree, I assume he did a vocational program.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Indeed. The programme in agrarian economics that Joachim undertook on Falster was a vocational programme and is on par with a secondary education.

 

[Adda]

Wow, I thought the Prince had a bachelor's degree in Agriculture. I'm shocked.

Some people should stop their attacks against Queen Daisy then, dearest Joachim wouldn't have landed those jobs without mummy's help. Real diplomats need more than a "vocational programme" to get to Washington DC.

 

[MARG]

Or Joachim is actually enthusiastic about moving on up to go work with some of the world's biggest and most advanced defense contractors and the Pentagon.

I just find it astounding that whatever he does (except for having a life-threatening stroke. Recovering from it meant business as usual), at least 60/40 of the reaction will be negative, even when they're all contradictory.
- "they're being forced"
- "he's totally unqualified"
- "he's completely entitled"
- "he forced this out of the Queen"
- "oh and he's probably dangerous and could be a loose cannon like Harry or a spy"

Maybe he's also tired of being the whipping boy.

(And this isn't just my opinion, or this board. I'm pretty sure Nikolai already expressed the same sentiment.)

I don't believe that 60% of members posting on the Danish threads trash Joachim. In fact, I think the rubbish in the papers about his lack of education/intelligence, are just plain silly but that seems to be the lot of designated "spares".

No, common sense seems to be lacking when it came to Joachim's French posting and is on track to be the same for his US posting. How sad that people don't realise that if one is not too smart, we keep him at home where we can limit the damage because, sending an ill-educated loser to Washington is just plain stupid.

Whatever you think of Joachim, the job in France and in the US will capitalise on something immeasurable, diplomacy. He was raised with the requisite manners, the ability to assess who is who and how to address them, the ability to read a room and work it, the ability to move effortlessly socially at the highest levels. you know, all those intangible skills of a diplomat, in this case a royal one. And yes, undoubtedly there are those that will suck up to his title, but I think he will do fine, after all, he's had his whole life sorting the wheat from the chaff.

On another point raised, I think many accuse Joachim of being arrogant and entitled because of his body language. He comes across as very reserved (read snobbish) and dignified (read distant and entitled). It's all about perception, how people see him, and in the US, he is not likely to be perceived the same way he is in Denmark.

 

[Mbruno]

Wow, I thought the Prince had a bachelor's degree in Agriculture. I'm shocked.

Some people should stop their attacks against Queen Daisy then, dearest Joachim wouldn't have landed those jobs without mummy's help. Real diplomats need more than a "vocational programme" to get to Washington DC.

He will be a "defense industry attaché" at the Danish embassy in Washington D.C. I assume that is not a regular diplomatic posting, but a military-related one as was his posting in the Paris embassy as military attaché.

If it is military-related, I believe Prince Joachim is qualified since he is a Brigadier General in the Danish army.

In Denmark, as in the UK by the way, I understand it is possible to become an officer or even a general (as in Joachim's case) without having earned a university degree, but that doesn't mean he is unqualified as the aggregate amount of training and courses that he took to get to his current rank probably exceeds by far the requirements to obtain a bachelor's degree in a university.

 

[tihkon2]

Wow, I thought the Prince had a bachelor's degree in Agriculture. I'm shocked.

Some people should stop their attacks against Queen Daisy then,

Why? She still handled the titles thing horribly and alienated a part of her own family for a bit. So, no, I don't think anyone needs to stop or start anything.

 

[Adda]

He will be a "defense industry attaché" at the Danish embassy in Washington D.C. I assume that is not a regular diplomatic posting, but a military-related one as was his posting in the Paris embassy as military attaché.

If it is military-related, I believe Prince Joachim is qualified since he is a Brigadier General in the Danish army.

I know he is a Brigadier General, no one doubts of his military qualification, but many officers have pursued an academic education outside of the Army, because it really helps with their transition into civilian life. Most of those Officers -some of them even war veterans- wouldn't land jobs in Washington DC without a bachelors or a masters degree.

Why? She still handled the titles thing horribly and alienated a part of her own family for a bit. So, no, I don't think anyone needs to stop or start anything.

You do you, but she's not going to give those titles back. Thoughts and prayers with the "poor" Counts, some people have to face such adversities in life...

 

[Prinsara]

In the Netherlands it is possible to do agricultural education at VMBO (lowest secondary level for students aged 12-16), MBO (vocational education), HBO (non-academic Bachelor) or university level (academic Bachelor or Master). I assume most countries offer agricultutal education at various levels.

Given that it is indicated that Joachim didn'tgraduate with a Bachelor's degree, I assume he did a vocational program.

The official website says he did two years post-secondary (not enough for a bachelor's, maybe something like an associate's rather than vocational), and doesn't specify a degree. It also says he has an awful lot of work experience at this point, in shipping, agriculture, and the higher echelons of the military.

Which most employers tend to prioritize over where you went to school or what likely-unrelated degree you were granted, especially when you've been working for years.

 

[tihkon2]

You do you, but she's not going to give those titles back. Thoughts and prayers with the "poor" Counts, some people have to face such adversities in life...

Oh, I could not care less if they're counts or barons or plain old mister and miss. What I do think is that the Queen is not maternal and had not even an iota of warmth or familial feeling when enacting her decision and that is all on her. Whatever crap she got from her own family and others for the way she went about doing this, was richly deserved in my opinion.


You have a nice day now.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

The official website says he did two years post-secondary (not enough for a bachelor's, maybe something like an associate's rather than vocational), and doesn't specify a degree. It also says he has an awful lot of work experience at this point, in shipping, agriculture, and the higher echelons of the military.

Which most employers tend to prioritize over where you went to school or what likely-unrelated degree you were granted, especially when you've been working for years.

Except it was a vocational programme and I'm not sure why you're trying to insist it wasn't as if there's something wrong with a vocational education. As a matter of fact, it was a perfect educational choice for the career in agriculture, Joachim originally set out for. Nothing to be ashamed of.

But also not a stretch to say it was probably wasn't his academic background that got him the jobs in Paris and D.C.

 

[Mbruno]

Except it was a vocational programme and I'm not sure why you're trying to insist it wasn't as if there's something wrong with a vocational education. As a matter of fact, it was a perfect educational choice for the career in agriculture, Joachim originally set out for. Nothing to be ashamed of.

But also not a stretch to say it was probably wasn't his academic background that got him the jobs in Paris and D.C.

Again I fail to see what is wrong about a senior officer being designated as a military attaché to an embassy. He qualifies for the position based on his rank in the army.

 

[Prinsara]

Except it was a vocational programme and I'm not sure why you're trying to insist it wasn't as if there's something wrong with a vocational education. As a matter of fact, it was a perfect educational choice for the career in agriculture, Joachim originally set out for. Nothing to be ashamed of.

But also not a stretch to say it was probably wasn't his academic background that got him the jobs in Paris and D.C.

I'm not trying to insist anything. But if challenging other posters, seeing things that aren't there, and discrediting Joachim's lengthy vocational experiences (nothing to be ashamed of, which did get him the jobs) makes you feel better, go right ahead.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

Challenging other posters? I was stating a fact as it didn't appear you wanted to believe Joachim's programme was vocational when you suggested it was an associate degree instead. I apologise if I was wrong to assume that.

And speaking of seeing things that aren't there, maybe you could point me in the general direction of me "discrediting Joachim's lengthy vocational experiences"?

Again I fail to see what is wrong about a senior officer being designated as a military attaché to an embassy. He qualifies for the position based on his rank in the army.

Have I said anything to the contrary?

 

[kalnel]

I wonder how career military officers feel about his advancement. He has risen to general without a college degree, without overseas postings anywhere but Paris, without combat experience, and with only part-time military service. (As I understand it, he worked at his estate and royal duties, not full-time military duties, until relatively recently.)

 

[BriarRose]

Does the Danish armed services require a bachelor's degree for officer promotions? Do any Danish posters know?

Yes, it is a required path in many countries for officer candidacy, but I believe there are members of NATO that do not require it, or accept other training in lieu of it.

Of course, his relation to the Queen was a part of getting this position. On the other hand, it's not clear, at least to me, that the Queen wants him to be in private enterprise. This may have been a compromise between them, and not a path he personally chose.

As someone who had an unfortunate experience of working with the son of a famous and widely admired Admiral, I can assure everyone that even in the military, one's family connections can pave the way for undeserved promotions and positions. However Joachim qualified for this position, he will not be the only person in DC who attained his role through nepotism.

 

[Kataryn]

I understand, but those qualifications are not known or helpful in professional or executive circles, at least in the United States. His title would open some doors, but he’d have a tough time building a career outside the Danish military or diplomatic corps without a university degree. And at his age, it would be almost impossible.

Yes, but it's like comparing apples and pears. Joachim is who he is. He had his life planned for him and yet managed to do it differently. He is no longer a gentleman-farmer at the Danish border to Germany, he is a military attaché in Washington.I hope he is happy with this.

 

[SLV]

I don't understand this emphasis on university titles. As if that is the only thing that counts in this world.
You can have degree, after degree, after degree, but without practical experience, you will have a lot less chance of getting that job compared to the other candidate with just one "lower" degree (or vocation or whatever), but who has a ton of workexperience.
And I say this as a person with a university MA-degree, who has a husband with a PhD.
There is more out there than degree-titles, and Joachim seems to have it!

 

[Muhler]

I wonder how career military officers feel about his advancement. He has risen to general without a college degree, without overseas postings anywhere but Paris, without combat experience, and with only part-time military service. (As I understand it, he worked at his estate and royal duties, not full-time military duties, until relatively recently.)

Joachim has gone through all the relevant courses. Starting with the basic staff course, before he could be promoted to major. And additional courses at the Defense Academy after that.
He also worked at the Defense Command, before being posted to France. Where he, as everybody knows, attended and passed the most prestigious staff education France has. Which is aimed at those destined to become generals or civil servants who aim for a higher career within the ministry of defense or the foreign ministry.
So the qualifications are there.

They won't send an amateur to Washington of all places.
If Joachim was not deemed competent they wouldn't send him. And if they did he would end up as military attache in Mongolia.

Joachim has an assistant in Paris, who is likely to take over and get an assistant of his own.

 

[An Ard Ri]

A statement from Joachim

"- My family and I look forward to our future existence in Washington. It has been a privilege to be posted to Denmark to promote Danish interests in France. Now we are turning our focus to America, where I will contribute to Denmark's transatlantic cooperation in the defense industry, says an expectant Prince Joachim."
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongeli...anske-eventyr-min-familie-og-jeg-ser-frem-til


[/url]

Wishing them the very best for the move across the Atlantic,there had been rumours and it came as no real surprise.

 

[Muhler]

As you may recall our Marie is doing some work for the Danish embassy in Paris, promoting Danish culture.

However the court has today, in response to question from the media, said that she will not be working for the Danish embassy in Washington.
She will basically be a housewife who will occasionally do some work for the DRF, to the extent that is possible and practical, I suppose.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kongehuset-om-prinsesse-marie-skal-ikke-arbejde-i-washington-dc

I imagine there is already an employee at the embassy who handles cultural exchanges and so forth.
Or that the work Marie is assumed to contribute with is not significant enough to merit a specific position to be set up for her.
- That would make sense IMO. Marie had the advantage of originating from France, so she could easily cut a few ribbons and give a nice speech and do some small talk about French and Danish culture.
But the cultural scene along the East coast of USA is no doubt more varied and has it's own identity or even identities. I think you really need to know what you are talking about in order to make an impression there. You also need personal contacts, a title alone won't do.