Princess Grace's Legacy

[Missjersey]

OT. yikes a hootie

 

[M. Payton]

Like I said I have read articles and biographies and watched documentary and Grace did a lot of good. Disagree that’s fine.

So tell me *who* is disagreeing with you here? Your not paying any attention to what anyone is telling you ........this is not a fairy tale with fairy princesses in it......these are real people. So what you read a magazine and believe everything it says....gads if that is the case, I feel sorry for you.

Hey, I am done trying to help you, you want some thing to read so here is one for you...........read the RULES of TRF now before it is to late.

 

[Lee-Z]

So tell me *who* is disagreeing with you here? Your not paying any attention to what anyone is telling you ........this is not a fairy tale with fairy princesses in it......these are real people. So what you read a magazine and believe everything it says....gads if that is the case, I feel sorry for you.

Hey, I am done trying to help you, you want some thing to read so here is one for you...........read the RULES of TRF now before it is to late.

I'm disagreeing with Kitty, because indeed i don't think Grace is a fairy tale princess.
I do think she did mean various things to Monaco, but i disagree she was God's gift to Monaco (as for one thing, i'm not religious ?) and without her Monaco would have ceased to exist.

So yes, i agree to disagree with it

To try to get out of the endless to-and-fro in this thread lately: i don't think this link has been posted yet
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ys-legacy-35-years-after-her-death/784826001/

 

[M. Payton]

Oh my apologizes, I also agree with you yet I know that Grace was no fairy tale princess. I want Kitty to realize that it is okay that not everyone has to think alike here, that seems to be be her problem. She really needs to read the rules and understand how things are done here. This thing *I read magazines and newspapers on Grace and see documentaries* isn't the whole story of Grace. Grace was no angel that swept down and did wonders for the country.....yet tell her that.

A couple of people here have tried to guide and help her and she name calls people, that is a huge NO NO for the forum as you know.

Maybe you can help her now for I am giving up.......not getting angry over this either for that does no good at all..........just letting it go and play itself out.....done.

 

[Kitty1224]

Oh my apologizes, I also agree with you yet I know that Grace was no fairy tale princess. I want Kitty to realize that it is okay that not everyone has to think alike here, that seems to be be her problem. She really needs to read the rules and understand how things are done here. This thing *I read magazines and newspapers on Grace and see documentaries* isn't the whole story of Grace. Grace was no angel that swept down and did wonders for the country.....yet tell her that.

A couple of people here have tried to guide and help her and she name calls people, that is a huge NO NO for the forum as you know.

Maybe you can help her now for I am giving up.......not getting angry over this either for that does no good at all..........just letting it go and play itself out.....done.

Like I said you have your opinions and I have mine.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Your a big ignorant to think Grace didn’t do a lot of good for Monaco like humanitarian and charity works, restoring the 19the century charm of Monaco, the charity ball, ect...

The 19th century charm of Monaco?
During Prince Rainier's Reign the principality became even more densely propped up with concrete, even extensions into the sea were constructed to enlarge city of Monte-Carlo.

The charity ball?
Which one? The Bal de la Croix-Rouge monégasque ("Red Cross Ball") started in the Reign of Prince Louis II of Monaco (1870-1949), Prince Rainier's grandfather.

The Bal de la Rose?
This "Rose Ball" was started in 1954 by the Société des Bains de Mer (the organization behind the Casino). At that time Grace Kelly and Prince Rainier have not met each other.

Neither the Bal de la Croix-Rouge nor the Bal de la Rose have anything to do with the famille princier other than that they are the guests of honour at both balls. They do not organize the ball, they are not the hosts of the ball, nothing. The Bal de la Rose has been transformed into a fundraising for the Fondation Princesse Grace but that happened under the Princess of Hannover, President since 1982, who succcesfully created the well-working machinery her mother's foundation is now.

Humanitarian and charity works?
Isn't that the core business of every royal lady (or any local aristocrat lady in fact)? Can we even name any royal lady who does not something for charity or humanitarian works?

 

[Denville]

Oh my apologizes, I also agree with you yet I know that Grace was no fairy tale princess. I want Kitty to realize that it is okay that not everyone has to think alike here, that seems to be be her problem. She really needs to read the rules and understand how things are done here. This thing *I read magazines and newspapers on Grace and see documentaries* isn't the whole story of Grace. Grace was no angel that swept down and did wonders for the country.....yet tell her that.

A couple of people here have tried to guide and help her and she name calls people, that is a huge NO NO for the forum as you know.

Maybe you can help her now for I am giving up.......not getting angry over this either for that does no good at all..........just letting it go and play itself out.....done.

what exactly is wrong with magazines and newspapers? I see plenty of stuff on royals that probably comes from TV documentaries and also from magazines and newspapers. I agree that with an older royal like Grace there are also books available but it is a matter of working out what is the truth of a situtaiton.. even books can be inaccurate.

 

[Kitty1224]

How the Marriage of Prince Rainier III and Grace Kelly Transformed Monaco | Carolyn Harris

Exclusive: Prince Albert remembers his mother Grace Kelly's legacy 35 years after her death

Prince Albert of Monaco returns to Hollywood in turmoil to bestow awards on emerging artists in honor of his mother, Princess Grace.

www.google.com

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The claims are utterly laughable and are easily countered with a look to nearby Saint-Tropez, Antibes, Nice, Cannes, etc. which all were and still are the hotspots of the wealthiest of the world: an equal boost alike Monte-Carlo without any Grace Kelly.

But doesn't Monaco have a fairytale palais princier? The most famous Grand Prix Formula One? Wasn't the Opéra de Monte-Carlo staging the biggest stars and most famous companies? Don't they have a successful football team that still belongs to Europe's grand names? Aren't the annual balls famous? Does Monte-Carlo not host an annual top tennis tournament? Aren't millionaires showing their biggest toys in the marina and on the boulevards?

Yes. Yes. Yes. All yes. Did it had anything to do with the only 26 years that Grace Kelly lived in Monaco? No. Everything what makes Monaco famous was already there before Grace, except her three children. That is it.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Don't forget the 5 star Hotel de Paris, an establishment so posh that Winston Churchill and Aristotle Onassis kept permanent suites there.

A friend of mine who dined there stated that he had never tasted such incredibly delicious cuisine!

 

[Kitty1224]

The claims are utterly laughable and are easily countered with a look to nearby Saint-Tropez, Antibes, Nice, Cannes, etc. which all were and still are the hotspots of the wealthiest of the world: an equal boost alike Monte-Carlo without any Grace Kelly.

But doesn't Monaco have a fairytale palais princier? The most famous Grand Prix Formula One? Wasn't the Opéra de Monte-Carlo staging the biggest stars and most famous companies? Don't they have a successful football team that still belongs to Europe's grand names? Aren't the annual balls famous? Does Monte-Carlo not host an annual top tennis tournament? Aren't millionaires showing their biggest toys in the marina and on the boulevards?

Yes. Yes. Yes. All yes. Did it had anything to do with the only 26 years that Grace Kelly lived in Monaco? No. Everything what makes Monaco famous was already there before Grace, except her three children. That is it.

It’s upsetting you don’t want to give Grace some credit for Monaco when she was Princess of Monaco.

 

[Denville]

Nobody is denying her credit, but she didn't come down from Heaven and save the place or make it a magical kingdom. She did good charity work, she brought charm and good breeding ot the place, was a cultured and intelligent princess. However, the 3 kids haven't been all that wonderful and Stephanie was a particular embarrassment to the RF...

 

[Florestane]

Nobody is denying her credit, but she didn't come down from Heaven and save the place or make it a magical kingdom. She did good charity work, she brought charm and good breeding ot the place, was a cultured and intelligent princess. However, the 3 kids haven't been all that wonderful and Stephanie was a particular embarrassment to the RF...

I don't think the three children are better or worse than many other aristocrats or royals, especially if you look at what some of their relatives got up to. A lot of their problems have been due to having to make their mistakes in the spotlight that might have been far less with a different mother.

Stephanie has had her wilder moments but she had a rough deal at a young age which I think left its scars. She is essentially a decent person which I think people appreciate more now that she's older.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree with Florestane. have to disagree with Denville about Grace's children.. They made mistakes, sometimes flamboyantly embarrassing ones, in their youths. But they have been no worse than the Windsors and in a few ways are a lot better. In their maturity they have done a lot to contribute to the prestige of their tiny Principality.

Albert is a workhorse with a lovely family. Caroline is cultured, intelligent, admired and respected in several Third World countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo that she recently visited. Stephanie has devoted herself to AIDS research and recently spoke before the UN.

I've no idea why the errors of the Grimaldi are considered so shocking compared to the others.

 

[Kitty1224]

Nobody is denying her credit, but she didn't come down from Heaven and save the place or make it a magical kingdom. She did good charity work, she brought charm and good breeding ot the place, was a cultured and intelligent princess. However, the 3 kids haven't been all that wonderful and Stephanie was a particular embarrassment to the RF...

As a religious woman I believe God chooses people to do his work whether it is on a larger platform(Grace) or smaller one.

 

[Denville]

I thinkall three of them were a disappointment to Grace who tired to give them a sensible upbringing.. Albert and Caroline have settled down with age and are OK, I don't know much about Stephanie but really her antics were pretty beyond the pale and I believe that Rainer cut her out of the family back in the 80s

 

[Moonmaiden23]

They made the mistakes that many young and privileged people make. They were still quite young when they lost Grace. Stephanie was only 17 for goodness sake!

As much heartache as they caused their mother Grace was also reportedly quite prideful of having such beautiful and intelligent offspring, as well she had a right to be.

Do you really believe HM the Queen has not been disappointed in Charles(flagrant adulterer) and Andrew(accused of pedophilia) at some point? How about Sofia of Spain with Cristina being an accused thief? How about Harald of Norway with his own Heir?

Mistakes are part of human nature especially when young. The important thing is the type of adults the children of Grace and Rainier grew into.

ETA: Rainier never did and never would "cut Stephanie out of the family". He made clear his disappointment in some of her choices and adjusted his will accordingly. But he loved her and she loved him. If it's possible for him to see her now, I am sure he is bursting with pride.

 

[Florestane]

I thinkall three of them were a disappointment to Grace who tired to give them a sensible upbringing.. Albert and Caroline have settled down with age and are OK, I don't know much about Stephanie but really her antics were pretty beyond the pale and I believe that Rainer cut her out of the family back in the 80s

Stephanie wasn't cut out of the family - there was a period of being distanced but the dialogue never stopped.

There were stories about how Rainier left her less liquid cash and tied her inheritance up in trusts because he was wary about her being so trusting and being taken advantage of.

As to the rest I never got the impression Grace's children were a disappointment to her. I'm sure she found them extremely hard work at times but she was always fiercely protective and defensive about how the press treated them and how they were perceived.

Anyway, not something we will ever know - I think she would see them now and decide it all turned out OK in the end...

 

[Kitty1224]

Stephanie wasn't cut out of the family - there was a period of being distanced but the dialogue never stopped.

There were stories about how Rainier left her less liquid cash and tied her inheritance up in trusts because he was wary about her being so trusting and being taken advantage of.

As to the rest I never got the impression Grace's children were a disappointment to her. I'm sure she found them extremely hard work at times but she was always fiercely protective and defensive about how the press treated them and how they were perceived.

Anyway, not something we will ever know - I think she would see them now and decide it all turned out OK in the end...

Well Stephanie is well off from that inheritance. Rainier gave both Caroline and Albert 900M and homes whilst Stephanie got 1% of that billion dollar empire Rainier had and also many homes.

 

[loonytick]

I don't think you could call Grace the savior of Monaco by any means. But the idea that Monaco was doing just fine when she arrived is just as laughable.

Monaco was almost bankrupt and Ranier was on the verge of losing control. He was locked in a very public feud with his sister, Antoinette, who thought he should be deposed and her son made Prince. The nation's primary revenue source at the time was gaming and luxury travel, which had taken a tremendous hit during both World Wars and not picked back up enough to recover those losses. It had direct competition from the other cities along the coast, none of which were hampered by an disproportional number of criminals using them as a tax haven--a real problem in Monaco at the time. In the midst of it all, Aristotle Onassis was on the verge of owning a controlling interest in the very important Société des Bains de Mer de Monaco (SBM), which could have made him the effective decision maker for the principality. He and Ranier tried to work together, but it became clear that they had very different ideas of what kind of place Monaco should be; by the time of the wedding there was an open rivalry between the two.

Ironically, it was Onassis who reportedly suggested marriage to a movie star like Grace could be a great tool for attracting a different, more positive attention to Monaco. Ultimately, though, Ranier was able to use Grace's fame and connections to help solidify his own position, attract a greater range of investors to key properties in the city and run Onassis off. The world seemed to forget his feud with Antoinette after Grace came on the scene, and the birth of their son solidified his hold on his position.

You can say that's all Ranier's doing, with Grace simply used as an important tool, or you can say Grace was partially responsible for restoring Ranier's control...but one way or another Grace certainly played an important role in a key moment in Monagesque history.

 

[Florestane]

I don't think you could call Grace the savior of Monaco by any means. But the idea that Monaco was doing just fine when she arrived is just as laughable.

Monaco was almost bankrupt and Ranier was on the verge of losing control. He was locked in a very public feud with his sister, Antoinette, who thought he should be deposed and her son made Prince. The nation's primary revenue source at the time was gaming and luxury travel, which had taken a tremendous hit during both World Wars and not picked back up enough to recover those losses. It had direct competition from the other cities along the coast, none of which were hampered by an disproportional number of criminals using them as a tax haven--a real problem in Monaco at the time. In the midst of it all, Aristotle Onassis was on the verge of owning a controlling interest in the very important Société des Bains de Mer de Monaco (SBM), which could have made him the effective decision maker for the principality. He and Ranier tried to work together, but it became clear that they had very different ideas of what kind of place Monaco should be; by the time of the wedding there was an open rivalry between the two.

Ironically, it was Onassis who reportedly suggested marriage to a movie star like Grace could be a great tool for attracting a different, more positive attention to Monaco. Ultimately, though, Ranier was able to use Grace's fame and connections to help solidify his own position, attract a greater range of investors to key properties in the city and run Onassis off. The world seemed to forget his feud with Antoinette after Grace came on the scene, and the birth of their son solidified his hold on his position.

You can say that's all Ranier's doing, with Grace simply used as an important tool, or you can say Grace was partially responsible for restoring Ranier's control...but one way or another Grace certainly played an important role in a key moment in Monagesque history.

Nobody said she wasn't important or that she didn't leave a legacy in the country she made her home for half her life. And nobody said Monaco was doing fine - but there's context.

Everywhere in Europe was in a total mess after the war, yes, Rainier entered into an arrangement with Onassis he came to regret but he wasn't about to lose his Principality without a fight - if you think Grace was one of his "weapons" fine.

I think it's all quite subtle and nuanced and probably a lot more interesting than just one person's influence. It's a particular set of circumstances at that time.

My personal opinion is that in terms of history it's far too early to say what someone's legacy is. Given all the twists and turns of fate that Monaco has survived over the centuries, I would say it's going to be people in a couple of generations who will have a clearer view of how lasting the impact of Grace (and Rainier) is.

The feud with Antoinette wasn't that bitter - she had little support and before Grace came along she and Rainier spent a fair amount of time together, as he took quite an interest in her children. They actually got on less well after she married her second husband who was manoeuvring politically against Rainier - that was after Grace came on the scene.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It’s upsetting you don’t want to give Grace some credit for Monaco when she was Princess of Monaco.

I think Grace did relatively well in her 26 years as Princesse de Monaco, despite various problems (marital problems, homesickness, drinking problems). What her "legacy" is, apart from her three children is hard to substantiate. She for sure was drop dead glamorous, but so were her contemporaries in those years with fabulous couture and very feminine mode.

 

[Kitty1224]

I think Grace did relatively well in her 26 years as Princesse de Monaco, despite various problems (marital problems, homesickness, drinking problems). What her "legacy" is, apart from her three children is hard to substantiate. She for sure was drop dead glamorous, but so were her contemporaries in those years with fabulous couture and very feminine mode.

What does her being glamorous have to do with Monaco?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Because as everyone on the planet must know the Principality of Monaco is one of the most glamorous places on earth. It's very existence depends on money, glamour, high chic, elegance.

I think Duc's point is that the Principality required someone like that as Princess Consort. A homely girl-next-door type from some unknown little berg in the USA would not have fit the bill...not at all.

 

[Kitty1224]

Because as everyone on the planet must know the Principality of Monaco is one of the most glamorous places on earth. It's very existence depends on money, glamour, high chic, elegance.

I think Duc's point is that the Principality required someone like that as Princess Consort. A homely girl-next-door type from some unknown little berg in the USA would not have foot the bill...not at all.

Well that makes sense. Grace was a very glamorous and feminine women. During those days in a Hollywood. Miss glamour in royalty.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Well...I miss CLASS and substance in Royalty more than "glamour".

But that's an entirely different conversation.

 

[Denville]

Stephanie wasn't cut out of the family - there was a period of being distanced but the dialogue never stopped.


As to the rest I never got the impression Grace's children were a disappointment to her. I'm sure she found them extremely hard work at times but she was always fiercely protective and defensive about how the press treated them and how they were perceived.

Anyway, not something we will ever know - I think she would see them now and decide it all turned out OK in the end...

My recollection was that Stephanie was cut out, her children weren't in the succession and that Rainer had cut ties with her, hardly surprisingly because she was an embarrassment.

 

[Osipi]

Well that makes sense. Grace was a very glamorous and feminine women. During those days in a Hollywood. Miss glamour in royalty.

Royalty has left the age of mystique and magic and has come into the real world. With the onset of instant communications where a burp can be heard around the world as it happens, the gloss and the glamor and the dreamlike aura that surrounded kings and queens and princes and princesses have dissolved and we've humanized them.

They make mistakes. They have emotional and mental anguishes and concerns. They battle addictions and stray from the straight and narrow path. They, in other words, become real people just like you and I are. Their roles are seen as we would see a person in their role as a doctor. Doctors are healers but they're not gods. Royals are promoters of their countries and goodwill and serve their people. They're also not gods.

This is what we do here. With our ability to communicate with each other from all over the globe at our fingertips, we come together and share and discuss and learn about real life people who just happen to be royal. With having different points of view and seeing things from different angles, we expand our knowledge and information base about certain royals we're interested in. Discussing things back and forth, we keep an open mind, listen and add to the conversations with respect and courtesy and it is why The Royal Forums has been such a huge success for so long. Its intelligently delving into history that you may not find in a history class at school which focuses on names and dates and is purely impersonal.

This is what makes this place special for me. Its why I'm permanently glued to these forums day after day, month after month and year after year.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

My recollection was that Stephanie was cut out, her children weren't in the succession and that Rainer had cut ties with her, hardly surprisingly because she was an embarrassment.

Stephanie's two eldest children were not in the Succession as long as Stephanie was not married to their father, Daniel Ducruet. Once Stephanie married Ducruet,Pauline and Louis were in the Succession and they remain so to this day.

Only Camille is not in the Succession and it's not because Rainier was embarrassed by her. It's simply because children born out of wedlock cannot inherit the Throne in Monaco until and unless their parents marry.

Your recollection that Rainier cut ties with his troubled youngest child is simply incorrect. He visited her in California during her exile there with the record producer who I cannot be bothered to remember, and he publicly stated on more than one occasion to be careful about shutting doors on ones' children because once the doors were shut it was difficult to reopen them.

He cut Stephanie's inheritance for the exact reason Florestane posted. He was concerned about her naivete and her judgement,and he didn't want her taken advantage of. Even so, she is still an exceedingly wealthy woman. Neither she nor her children will ever want for anything.

Both Rainier and her brother Albert have seen to that.

Late in his life I remember watching an interview on TV with either Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walters interviewing Rainier. When the interviewer mentioned to Rainier that Stephanie had stated that her father was the only man in her life who had never betrayed her, Rainier teared up.

That pretty much sums up their relationship imo.

 

[Kitty1224]

Stephanie's two eldest children were not in the Succession as long as Stephanie was not married to their father, Daniel Ducruet. Once Stephanie married Ducruet,Pauline and Louis were in the Succession and they remain so to this day.

Only Camille is not in the Succession and it's not because Rainier was embarrassed by her. It's simply because children born out of wedlock cannot inherit the Throne in Monaco until and unless their parents marry.

Your recollection that Rainier cut ties with his troubled youngest child is simply incorrect. He visited her in California during her exile there with the record producer who I cannot be bothered to remember, and he publicly stated on more than one occasion to be careful about shutting doors on ones' children because once the doors were shut it was difficult to reopen them.

He cut Stephanie's inheritance for the exact reason Florestane posted. He was concerned about her naivete and her judgement,and he didn't want her taken advantage of. Even so, she is still an exceedingly wealthy woman. Neither she nor her children will ever want for anything.

Both Rainier and her brother Albert have seen to that.

Late in his life I remember watching an interview on TV with either Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walters interviewing Rainier. When the interviewer mentioned to Rainier that Stephanie had stated that her father was the only man in her life who had never betrayed her, Rainier teared up.

That pretty much sums up their relationship imo.

Then how rich are Albert, Caroline and Stephanie?