nascarlucy
Serene Highness
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- Jun 23, 2010
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Well then rob 2008 you wouldn't be allowed to marry into their family then as you list yourself as a commoner.
Well then rob 2008 you wouldn't be allowed to marry into their family then as you list yourself as a commoner.
I think that the future Duchess of Värmland and Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland should both get the Swedish princely titles because wives of princes are naturally princesses and husbands of princesses should become princes because of equal primogeniture.
We now know that Madeleine's husband will be a Duke. As for Carl Philip's wife, she'll be a Princess or a Duchess (or nothing if he marries someone absolutely outrageous, a convicted murderer, say and Madeleine would also lose her title if she does that). I guess we'll have to wait till he gets engaged to see. If Jonas could keep his job, I don't see why Carl Philip's wife wouldn't be able to. She might prefer to do royal duties, of course.
As for the children, I don't know if the ducal titles are/would become hereditary. I wouldn't be that surprised if Carl Philip's children weren't Princes and Princesses since in Holland, the children of Queen Beatrix's younger sons are Counts/Countesses. They might follow the norwegian model where only Victoria's oldest child will be HRH and her other children HH (like Ingrid Alexandra and Sverre Magnus). Everyone seems to be 'downsizing'.
Most likely a future wife of Carl Philip will be HRH Princess of Seden, Duchess of Värmland. As for this ducal title he can not be inherited by any of the children as the swedish ducal titles are personal. As for children we will have to wait and see. In the past children of Princess all became HRH Prince/Princess and the sons also an ducal title. The problem is that Carl Gustaf can not create noble titles so he can not give them another new title like it was done in the Netherlands for Constantijn's and Friso's chidlren. He can only regulate the titles of the members of the Royal House.
Yes the King gave these one to hem. These are the only on he is allowed to give and they are personal and can not be inherited.He gave his children ducal titles didn't he? Or were they from the government?
And can only be given to members of the Royal House. Ducal titles in Sweden are just for the Royal House and are no longer heridary*.Yes trhe King gave these one to hem. These are the only on ehe is allowed to give and they are personal and can not be inherited.
The Swedish Committee of the Constitution also sees that the flag days only apply to the birthday and name day of the Head of state and heir to the throne. This would, in turn, mean that, for example, Prince Daniel can not get a raised flag when he turns years.
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/kungligt/ku-vill-begransa-anslaget-till-den-vaxande-kungafamiljen/
I don't know about the specific issue of flag days, but there is an obvious difference between Silvia and Daniel in the sense that Silvia is the Queen of Sweden (Sveriges Drottning) and styled Majesty, whereas Daniel, even when Victoria is Queen, will probably be only a Prince and a Royal Highness (at best, he will be given a title of Prince Consort like Prince Henrik of Denmark).
That is not a peculiarity of Sweden, but applies to all European kingdoms in their unequal treatment of make and female spouses of monarchs.
the point with the proposed new Swedish law regulating the use, both official and private, of flags is that when the next monarch ascends to the throne the flag days will be limited to the monarch and the heir only. It has nothing to do with Daniel personally, his status, his gender or his titles.
In addition, the remark from Hans Ekström MP that "we ought to think about whether it is reasonable for the birthday and name day of the boy from Ockelbo to become flag days" seems to have a classist slant. Perhaps I am misconstruing Mr. Ekström, but on what other basis is it less reasonable for "a boy from Ockelbo" than a "girl from São Paulo and Heidelberg" to have her birthday become a flag day?
Most likely because the spouse of the monarch has no constitutional role. Regarding the change of the Flag law I think that they wait to enforce it out of respect for the Queen and to not step on the King's toes. It's worth noting that this is only one part in a big reform regarding the use of the Swedish flag and the use of flags on public buildings and places.But why did Parliament not attain the same decrease in the number of royal flag days through limiting them to the monarch and the monarch's spouse only? In European royal protocol, the spouse of the monarch traditionally outranks the heir.
If it has nothing to do with Daniel, then I am unclear on why the law is not planned to have effect immediately, but rather have its effects postponed until Daniel rather than Silvia will be the consort who is affected.
In addition, the remark from Hans Ekström MP that "we ought to think about whether it is reasonable for the birthday and name day of the boy from Ockelbo to become flag days" seems to have a classist slant. Perhaps I am misconstruing Mr. Ekström, but on what other basis is it less reasonable for "a boy from Ockelbo" than a "girl from São Paulo and Heidelberg" to have her birthday become a flag day?
Hans Ekström is a Social democrat. What he says about "the boy from Ockelbo" does not sound classist at all in Swedish. On the contrary the description is almost endearing.What party does Mr. Ekström belong to? I imagine he must be far right.
Hans Ekström is a Social democrat. What he says about "the boy from Ockelbo" does not sound classist at all in Swedish. On the contrary the description is almost endearing.
Regarding the change of the Flag law I think that they wait to enforce it out of respect for the Queen and to not step on the King's toes.
What he says about "the boy from Ockelbo" does not sound classist at all in Swedish. On the contrary the description is almost endearing.
The change has to start somewhere and removing the privilege from the Queen who's had a flag day in her honour for almost 50 years is, at least to me, much more disrespectful than to not give it to someone who's never had the privilege before. I personally don't see why it's necessary to remove the privilege for the spouse of the monarch at all but I am in general behind the reform of the flag regulations.I can understand that. But if enforcing the changed law for Silvia would be considered disrespectful to her and/or the King, it raises the question of why the MPs do not have the same concerns about disrespecting Daniel and/or the Crown Princess.
The Government's Proposition on the revised Order System snd the Public Flag Days was today handed over to the Riksdag. The MPs have until May 4th to write motions before it is handled in the Constitional Committe and after that in the Chamber.
No major (or none) changes from what we already know:
https://riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-la...rnt-offentligt-beloningssystem-och-de_H903232
The change has to start somewhere and removing the privilege from the Queen who's had a flag day in her honour for almost 50 years is, at least to me, much more disrespectful than to not give it to someone who's never had the privilege before. I personally don't see why it's necessary to remove the privilege for the spouse of the monarch at all but I am in general behind the reform of the flag regulations.
Indeed somewhat surprised that the government didn't just go along with the king's non-sensical approach: "my wife should always have a flag day but my daughter's husband can do without"... And yes, he might have requested something different for his son's wife had he been the future king...
I personally don't see why the monarch's spouse cannot have a flag day but to have the former spouse but not the current makes no sense at all. What would be the problem to have a flag day for previous, current and future monarch and spouses? That's at a maximum 6 but more likely 4 most of the time.
So the Royal Court (in other words, the King) requested that Queen Silvia's birthday continue to be marked as a public flag day during the reign of Queen Victoria, even though Prince Daniel's birthday will not be a flag day during Queen Victoria's reign under the new regulations. However, the Government disagreed with the Royal Court's proposal because it views it as "inconsistent" to honor the birthday of (dowager) Queen Silvia but not the birthday of the reigning monarch's spouse.
I fully agree with the Government, but it surprises me that they did not simply agree to the Royal Court's proposal, as it seems the Government normally gives the King free rein except in matters involving public financing.
You are right, of course. I suppose I just feel it is a bit of a missed opportunity that as a consequence of Daniel being the first consort affected by the reform, no consort of a reigning Queen, male consort, Swedish consort or middle-class consort will ever receive the same honor as the "traditional" consorts of the past, when the same reduction in flag days could have been achieved by eliminating the birthday of the crown prince/ss, who would still receive her or his flag day when she or he succeeded as monarch.
I also wonder whether the parliamentary committee would have made the same decision if Carl Philip and Sofia had been Crown Prince and Crown Princess.
This has nothing to do with Daniel being a man, middle-class (his mother-in-law was also middle-class) nor is it an attempt by the King to have a dig at him.
What does surprise me a lot is that the Gustav Adolf day on November 6 is retained as a flag day. The day is not a holiday, but commemorates the day King Gustav II Adolf fell in the Battle of Lützen in 1632.
Nice that Prince Daniel went to sit by his wife's side after Pss Estelle left. I never understood why they keep putting him on the 2nd row. No other RF does that to the spouse of the heir.
Obviously the King wants that Victoria and Estelle sit with him and queen Silvia in the first row, because they sat that way last year too.
https://www.sollidensessions.se/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/sollidensessions3-768x512.jpg
I was aware that Prince Daniel has always been seated in the second row at the Nobel Prize ceremony, even during the period when the Crown Princess sat in the front row, but I hadn't realized he was relegated to the second row even at his own wife's birthday concerts.
but he isn't seated in the second row at his wife's birthday concert, as can be seen in this pic from this year's Concert
https://www.imago-images.de/bild/st/0162836568/w.jpg
1. Regarding "his mother-in-law was also middle-class": I have read in the Swedish media about the doubts concerning the supposed lack of sophistication of Daniel's background, but nothing like it for Silvia, so my impression is that for many Swedes Silvia is considered to belong to a different class than Daniel.
2. Interesting, since part of the reasoning offered for eliminating royal name days as flag days is that with celebration of name days on the wane, members of the public may lack understanding of the significance of royal name days. Does the average member of the public have a deep understanding of the Battle of Lützen?