acid_rain3075
Courtier
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- Aug 14, 2005
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Oh and I forgot to mention that I agree with post #11 Princess Charlotte wasn't Black so maybe you shouldn't use that so loosely!
acid_rain3075 said:But Monaco doesn't HAVE to do that! And they most likely won't! Alexandre, Camille, and even Jazmin are illegitimate! Always have been, and always will be! Why must you continue with this? Not saying that you can't but is there a reason why you seem to be holding on to this?
Yes but why is it so important? I don't know, maybe I just don't get it! It could have something to do with the fact that I'm American, and we just don't have this problem here (well, as far as I know).Danielane said:He says he's legitimist both in France and in Monaco. Desperate causes in anyway...
(No, I don't like very much french monarchists, but I frankly can't stand all the legitimists I know).
acid_rain3075 said:Yes but why is it so important? I don't know, maybe I just don't get it! It could have something to do with the fact that I'm American, and we just don't have this problem here (well, as far as I know).
Could you please remember that Monaco is an independent state and does not follow French rulings? Yes there are strong ties, but they are being losened due to pressure from the EU (even though they will maintain a close friendship). None the less your arguing toward Alex, Jazmin etc all belongs in the land of fairytales and dreams. The laws are clear in that matter and I think you should finally accept that just as you will have to accept that France will stay a republic. If you don't like it, fine, but you will not change history and you will not change the law. The only ones to change anything in France is its parliament ad in MC it is PA and he has been very clear on the matter that he does not wish any of his illigitimate offspring to succeed him. He has been hiding behind phrases of constitution etc. but fact is he wants to have legitimate offspring to succeed him and as long as he has hope to have his own, he will not change his mind.Louis14 said:I agree with you.
The rule of succession decided by Prince Rainier in 2002 will anyway have to evolve towards more equality between all the children.
With the French law on the parity between men and women, and the new French law on the filiation which banishes for ever the archaic notion of illegitimate child, Monaco which maintains very narrow relations with France, will be politically obliged to modify its Constitution to adapt it to these new rights.
Towards these inevitable evolutions, Alexandre and Camille must be integrated into the inheritance order.
What means that if Jazmin was not Prince Albert's dauhgter, Alexandre would be the heir of the Monegasque throne.
Louis-le-14ème
Nothing to do with being American (or Australian for that matter). The Monaco succession law is relevant to the citizens of Monaco, but I don't see what "French Legitimists" have to do with it! Maybe they could get their own act together before attempting to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries? Failing that, they could campaign for the deposing of both Juan Carlos and Elizabeth II, to be replaced by Luis Alfonso and the Duke of Bavaria. For legitimist consistency, of course.acid_rain3075 said:Yes but why is it so important? I don't know, maybe I just don't get it! It could have something to do with the fact that I'm American...
I 100% agree with you! This notion that just because Monaco and France have a close "friendship" with each other doesn't mean that Monaco has to adopt French laws just for the sake of that "Friendship"paca said:Could you please remember that Monaco is an independent state and does not follow French rulings? Yes there are strong ties, but they are being losened due to pressure from the EU (even though they will maintain a close friendship). None the less your arguing toward Alex, Jazmin etc all belongs in the land of fairytales and dreams. The laws are clear in that matter and I think you should finally accept that just as you will have to accept that France will stay a republic. If you don't like it, fine, but you will not change history and you will not change the law. The only ones to change anything in France is its parliament ad in MC it is PA and he has been very clear on the matter that he does not wish any of his illigitimate offspring to succeed him. He has been hiding behind phrases of constitution etc. but fact is he wants to have legitimate offspring to succeed him and as long as he has hope to have his own, he will not change his mind.
Warren said:Nothing to do with being American (or Australian for that matter). The Monaco succession law is relevant to the citizens of Monaco, but I don't see what "French Legitimists" have to do with it! Maybe they could get their own act together before attempting to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries? Failing that, they could campaign for the deposing of both Juan Carlos and Elizabeth II, to be replaced by Luis Alfonso and the Duke of Bavaria. For legitimist consistency, of course.
Warren said:Nothing to do with being American (or Australian for that matter). The Monaco succession law is relevant to the citizens of Monaco, but I don't see what "French Legitimists" have to do with it! Maybe they could get their own act together before attempting to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries? Failing that, they could campaign for the deposing of both Juan Carlos and Elizabeth II, to be replaced by Luis Alfonso and the Duke of Bavaria. For legitimist consistency, of course.
Warren said:Nothing to do with being American (or Australian for that matter). The Monaco succession law is relevant to the citizens of Monaco, but I don't see what "French Legitimists" have to do with it! Maybe they could get their own act together before attempting to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries? Failing that, they could campaign for the deposing of both Juan Carlos and Elizabeth II, to be replaced by Luis Alfonso and the Duke of Bavaria. For legitimist consistency, of course.
As I don't want to be harsh, I won't say what I think about the french legitimists...Louis14 said:For the French Legitimists, *Monseigneur Louis de Bourbon*, the Head of House of Bourbon-Anjou-Espagne, must be the King of Spain.
Louis-le-14ème
I believe the point Warren was trying to make is that every other Euro monarchy does not recognize illegitimate children in the line of succession so why is Monaco singled out to put its illegitimates on the throne? This also assumes that Albert has only one son out-of-wedlock and that there is not an older one than Alexandre out there. Regarding equality between the sexes in line of succession, Monaco is only one of several royal families that are based on male preference; Denmark, Great Britain, Luxembourg, Liechenstein, Japan and Spain are just a few monarchies who still practice this. It's not just Monaco. And I certainly agree that France should get its own act together before meddling in other countries' affairs.Louis14 said:Please, do not forget that the Princes Grimaldi were of use for a long time to the Court of France. They owe their prince's title to Kings of France.
Louis-le-14ème
Laviollette said:I believe the point Warren was trying to make is that every other Euro monarchy does not recognize illegitimate children in the line of succession so why is Monaco singled out to put its illegitimates on the throne? This also assumes that Albert has only one son out-of-wedlock and that there is not an older one than Alexandre out there. Regarding equality between the sexes in line of succession, Monaco is only one of several royal families that are based on male preference; Denmark, Great Britain, Luxembourg, Liechenstein, Japan and Spain are just a few monarchies who still practice this. It's not just Monaco. And I certainly agree that France should get its own act together before meddling in other countries' affairs.
Lisele said:Forgive me, I don't understand all the brouhaha about Alexandre. He's Prince Albert's illegitimate natural child and the Prince acknowledged him. For years illegitimate children of royalty (regardless of tier) were kept in the background and never acknowledged and didn't have any rights to royal perquisites unless granted to them. Why the push to make Alexandre to be treated as a legitimate member of the royal family? Am I missing something?
Louis14 said:None in the historic House of Grimaldi disputes this rule of succession of Lord John Grimaldi, even not Prince Albert himself.
This is an extract of the last interview of Prince Albert on CNN:
Larry King (CNN) : If God forbid something happened to you is he Prince?
Prince Albert : Well, then we will have to...we will have to review this.
Larry King : But you're going to get close to him, I mean you want to be close to him?
Prince Albert : I've already seen him and I will see him when the time is right and when I've been able to work out ways to see him in a private way.
Louis-le-14ème
Lisele said:Forgive me, I don't understand all the brouhaha about Alexandre. He's Prince Albert's illegitimate natural child and the Prince acknowledged him. For years illegitimate children of royalty (regardless of tier) were kept in the background and never acknowledged and didn't have any rights to royal perquisites unless granted to them. Why the push to make Alexandre to be treated as a legitimate member of the royal family? Am I missing something?
MyAdia said:Yes, he did say what you quoted above, but you cunningly omitted the sentences immediately prior to your above quote that sets a more definitive view of Alexandre's non-right to the throne.
**********************************************
KING: Does he ascend to the throne?
ALBERT: No, he's not because the law says that it's a direct descendant of a legitimate union, so a marriage, so whatever siblings come out of that marriage will be in line for the throne.
KING: All right, so he's an heir to the money. I mean he has money coming to him. What happens if you never marry?
ALBERT: I haven't envisaged that concept.
KING: If God forbid something happened to you is he prince?
ALBERT: Well, then we will have to -- we will have to review this.
KING: But you're going to get close to him, I mean you want to be close to him?
ALBERT: I've already seen him and I will see him when the time is right and when I've been able to work out ways to see him in a private way.
yet i doubt that will happen! Prince Albert has said before that ALEXANDRE WILL NOT BE PRINCE OF MONACOLouis14 said:I rather think that Prince Albert is going to modify this law to allow his son to be dynaste.
Otherwise, I do not see why he would have said to Larry King that "he will have to review this".
Louis-le-14ème
acid_rain3075 said:yet i doubt that will happen! Prince Albert has said before that ALEXANDRE WILL NOT BE PRINCE OF MONACO
[COLOR=black said:Why is it so important for you to see Alexandre inherit the throne? Is it just because he is black?[/color]
You seem to have a need to compare Alexandre and Princess Charlotte (whom you label both as black). Ranier's mother was Algerian. Race is more of a social construct than biological one, especially when you speak of North Africans. North Africans, such as Algerians and Moroccans, are neither completely Negroid nor completely Caucasian.
acid_rain3075 said:yet i doubt that will happen! Prince Albert has said before that ALEXANDRE WILL NOT BE PRINCE OF MONACO
A very good point! But it's not just Caroline's legacy, it's also her son's! In the end, I think it will be Caroline's linage that will transcend through time!Toledo said:And, does anyone think Caroline would let that happen? It's her legacy too since she is currently the unproclaimed Crown Princess of Monaco, Albert's heir.
acid_rain3075 said:A very good point! But it's not just Caroline's legacy, it's also her son's! In the end, I think it will be Caroline's linage that will transcend through time!