Pre-Abdication, Information and Musings’ thread

[Muhler]

Will Christian also be present at the Council of State meeting? Is it correct that he will now assume a seat on the Council of State as the heir? I also assume that the rest of the family will be at Christianborg as well for the events.

That depends. I suspect both Mary and Christian will be invited to attend the State Council as the queen to be and crown prince to be. Especially if the abdications takes place during the State Council. But I don't think so.
I think that will take place in front of a wide range of representatives from political parties as well a the government and the Presidium of the Parliament. Perhaps the Supreme Court President as well.

He should at least be attending the next State Council, but as he is still attending high school, I think it's not unlikely that Mary may attend instead, as she has acted as Rigsforstander on several occasions.

Upon reflection I think the proclaiming will take place at noon and at the same time there will be sautes from the Naval Battery in Copenhagen and from Kronborg - it is after all a celebration.
That means 27 shots fired.

 

[Izzie]

That depends. I suspect both Mary and Christian will be invited to attend the State Council as the queen to be and crown prince to be. Especially if the abdications takes place during the State Council. But I don't think so.
I think that will take place in front of a wide range of representatives from political parties as well a the government and the Presidium of the Parliament. Perhaps the Supreme Court President as well.

He should at least be attending the next State Council, but as he is still attending high school, I think it's not unlikely that Mary may attend instead, as she has acted as Rigsforstander on several occasions.

Upon reflection I think the proclaiming will take place at noon and at the same time there will be sautes from the Naval Battery in Copenhagen and from Kronborg - it is after all a celebration.
That means 27 shots fired.

So the proclamation at noon from the balcony of Christianborg. Then maybe a carriage ride back to Amalienborg? Did QMII do a carriage ride on her ascension?

I also thought of a strange question - do you think she will make a train ride to Roskilde to her parents' graves? And will Mary, Frederik and other family possibly also go? Sorry if that is a dumb question.

BTW: I do find it very sentimental to have January 14th be the date chosen. Maybe this will be the set date in the future for an abdication should another one take place.

 

[Curryong]

Another, possibly dumb, question. Will there be any sort of public holiday declared in Denmark for Jan/Feb to celebrate King Frederik’s accession?

 

[Muhler]

Well, these are good suggestions.

I'd say anything that is appropriate for a solemn yet happy occasion is a possibility.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It seems very similar to how they are now both officially referenced as 'the crown prince' and 'the crown princess' while in daily life they are known as 'Crown prince Frederik' and 'Crown princess Mary'.

For right now it seems to be the other way around, with Crown Princess Mary Elizabeth being treated as the more formal form while 'the Crown Princess' is the court's daily usage.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/the-royal-family/hrh-the-crown-princess/#family

Mary Elizabeth, Her Royal Highness Crown Princess of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat, was born on 5 February 1972 in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. HRH The Crown Princess may act as regent when HM The Queen and HRH The Crown Prince are abroad.

[...]

On 14 May 2004, on the occasion of the marriage to His Royal Highness Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark, she became Her Royal Highness Crown Princess Mary Elizabeth of Denmark.​

 

[Somebody]

For right now it seems to be the other way around, with Crown Princess Mary Elizabeth being treated as the more formal form while 'the Crown Princess' is the court's daily usage.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/the-royal-family/hrh-the-crown-princess/#family

Mary Elizabeth, Her Royal Highness Crown Princess of Denmark, Countess of Monpezat, was born on 5 February 1972 in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. HRH The Crown Princess may act as regent when HM The Queen and HRH The Crown Prince are abroad.

[...]

On 14 May 2004, on the occasion of the marriage to His Royal Highness Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark, she became Her Royal Highness Crown Princess Mary Elizabeth of Denmark.​

I see it differently. This description from her biography is primarily for clarification purposes (note that they don't do the same for Frederik). If you go to the overview of the royal family (and in the dropdown menu for activities as well) it reads 'HM The Queen', 'HRH The Crown Prince', 'HRH The Crown Princess' and for all others 'HRH Prince(ss) Name' or 'HE Count(ess) Name'. Also, for any engagements they are referred to as 'Kronprinsen', 'Kronprinsessen' or 'Kronprinsparet'. So, that is the way they officially refer to her. So, I expect them to continue that same usage. The court will use 'the king and the queen of Denmark' in official usage - as they are the regnal couple: King Frederik X and Queen Mary of Denmark.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

So the proclamation at noon from the balcony of Christianborg. Then maybe a carriage ride back to Amalienborg? Did QMII do a carriage ride on her ascension?

The proclamation in 1972 took place at 15.00 in the afternoon

Yes Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik travelled in an open carriage back to Amalienborg afterwards… As did the former King Frederik and Queen Ingrid in 1947

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I see it differently. This description from her biography is primarily for clarification purposes (note that they don't do the same for Frederik). If you go to the overview of the royal family (and in the dropdown menu for activities as well) it reads 'HM The Queen', 'HRH The Crown Prince', 'HRH The Crown Princess' and for all others 'HRH Prince(ss) Name' or 'HE Count(ess) Name'. Also, for any engagements they are referred to as 'Kronprinsen', 'Kronprinsessen' or 'Kronprinsparet'. So, that is the way they officially refer to her. So, I expect them to continue that same usage. The court will use 'the king and the queen of Denmark' in official usage - as they are the regnal couple: King Frederik X and Queen Mary of Denmark.

I don't disagree, but simply misunderstood what you meant by 'official'.

I would just like to note that as the press release indicates, King Frederik 10 and Queen Mary are also perfectly correct forms to use (in contrast to the British monarchy where it would be considered incorrect), even if the court chooses the equally correct The King and Queen for their official daily usage.

 

[Alisa]

Shall we say white, male and middle aged pluss. I hope for some more progressive choices, some women (not just for Mary) in top positions, and a new comms team, it leaves a litle to be desired as soon as it gets a bit tricky and not just Billedbladets rose tinted view on the world/royals.

The Danish Royal Family has been the most progressive of all royal families. They were the first to have non-white senior member of the royal family in all of Europe. They were also the first to have a non-white Lady in Waiting or Aide de Camp in all the European royal houses.

 

[Saragli]

Have the regalia ever been used during an ascension, even as just a display, since the coronations were abolished or are they only used during the funeral of a monarch in Denmark?

 

[Somebody]

The Danish Royal Family has been the most progressive of all royal families. They were the first to have non-white senior member of the royal family in all of Europe. They were also the first to have a non-white Lady in Waiting or Aide de Camp in all the European royal houses.

Not sure they have been or are the most progressive (nor do I think it is about being as progressive as possible) - I guess it really depends on how you define progressive. They only allowed women on the throne from 1953. At that point in time, Spain and the UK had had female monarchs for centuries and the Netherlands' first queen had reigned for 50 years (and abdicated - also rather progressive). And they fairly recently (2008) adapted to absolute primogeniture; 28, 25, 18 and 17 years after Sweden, the Netherlands, Norway and Belgium respectively.

Moreover, they weren't too keen on their princes and princesses marrying commoners (no permission was granted until the last generation). And currently they are the only European kingdom where none of those in line to the throne married (or were allowed to marry - without losing their place in line to the throne) commoners from their own country.

 

[Stefan]

Not sure they have been or are the most progressive (nor do I think it is about being as progressive as possible) - I guess it really depends on how you define progressive. They only allowed women on the throne from 1953. At that point in time, Spain and the UK had had female monarchs for centuries and the Netherlands' first queen had reigned for 50 years (and abdicated - also rather progressive). And they fairly recently (2008) adapted to absolute primogeniture; 28, 25, 18 and 17 years after Sweden, the Netherlands, Norway and Belgium respectively.

But then the succession laws are not something about which the RF decides but rater the government of the day

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

Moreover, they weren't too keen on their princes and princesses marrying commoners (no permission was granted until the last generation). And currently they are the only European kingdom where none of those in line to the throne married (or were allowed to marry - without losing their place in line to the throne) commoners from their own country.

In all fairness, neither Frederik or his brother ever tried to gain Government permission to marry a local commoner. There is what the media purported and what the reality is.

Did QMII have a gala banquet when she ascended? Albeit a few months after?

 

[Mbruno]

Given that Frederik is referred to as King Frederik the 10th; of course, in the same way Mary is Queen Mary. However, they will 'bear the titles' of the king and the queen of Denmark.

The late King Frederik IX was referred to as “ Konge til Danmark” whereas Queen Ingrid was “ Dronning af Danmark”. However, the press release says that King Frederik X and Queen Mary will be collectively referred to as “Kongen og Dronningen af Danmark”. Was that the same also at the time of King Frederik IX and Queen Ingrid? Or will Frederik X also be known as “ Konge af Danmark” rather than “ til Danmark”?

Maybe the Danish members can clarify.

 

[Muhler]

Have the regalia ever been used during an ascension, even as just a display, since the coronations were abolished or are they only used during the funeral of a monarch in Denmark?

Yes.

They are usually displayed on the coffin of the late monarch.

 

[Blog Real]

Background on succession to the throne

Since the 1600s, the Danish monarchy has been a so-called hereditary monarchy, in which the Crown is inherited upon the death of the sovereign.

The Act on Succession to the Throne of the Kingdom of Denmark from 1953 thus stipulates that the Danish throne is inherited within the descendants of Christian 10. and Queen Alexandrine.

Until 1953, only male descendants of the king were able to inherit the throne. That was changed in 1953, when, following a referendum, it was determined that female descendants should also be able to inherit the throne, but in such a way, however, that male descendants should have precedence.

It was the amendment of the rules for succession in 1953 that prepared the way for HM The Queen to be able to assume the throne after the death of her father, Frederik 9., on 14 January 1972.

With the most recent amendment of the Act of Succession in 2009, equality in the succession to the throne was implemented. This means that the throne is now inherited by the sovereign’s oldest child – regardless of gender.

In Denmark, the tradition up to the present has been that the succession to the throne takes place upon the death of the sovereign, as was the case most recently in 1972. In these instances, the succession occurs the moment the sovereign dies.

The upcoming succession to the throne will be different. This time, the succession will first take place during the meeting of the Council of State at the moment The Queen has signed a declaration of her abdication.

HRH The Crown Prince will thus arrive at Christiansborg Palace as a crown prince and leave it as King. Likewise, HRH The Crown Princess will arrive as a crown princess and depart as Queen. HRH Prince Christian will leave Christiansborg Palace as Crown Prince (heir to the throne).

Upon the succession to the throne, the new sovereign takes charge of all of the functions which, according to the constitution, are incumbent on the head of state.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/news/background-on-succession-to-the-throne

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Have the regalia ever been used during an ascension, even as just a display, since the coronations were abolished or are they only used during the funeral of a monarch in Denmark?

Only used during the lying in state before the funeral.

 

[Prinsara]

Yes.

They are usually displayed on the coffin of the late monarch.

Perhaps they'll just be... displayed, this time?

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I wonder why the Queen feels the need to drop the regnal numeral II following her abdication? Her Belgian colleague Albert II retained it when he abdicated, even though his father Leopold III dropped his ordinal and became plain King Leopold.

I hope (but do not expect) that the press release will serve as a reminder for Anglophone royal watchers that customs differ from monarchy to monarchy and referring to HM King Frederik X and HM Queen Mary is perfectly correct in Scandinavia, even if in the British monarchy the reigning monarch and his wife are not supposed to be referred to by their given names.

Is it official that Queen Margrethe II will not use the regnal numeral II?

 

[Mbruno]

Background on succession to the throne



https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/news/background-on-succession-to-the-throne

Will the Council of State be also televised? Or just the Proclamation?

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Is it official that Queen Margrethe II will not use the regnal numeral II?

Yes. According to the press release at the Danish Royal Familys website, she will be known as ”Her Majesty Queen Margrethe” (without II)

Changes in the titles of The Royal Family

On Sunday, 14 January 2024, HRH The Crown Prince assumes the Danish throne as HM King Frederik the 10th. At the same time, HRH The Crown Princess will be known as HM Queen Mary. The Royal...

www.kongehuset.dk

 

[tommy100]

More info on the effects of the abdication/new reign on charities, patronages, purveyors to the court etc

https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/news/t...ish-court-and-honorary-titles-and-decorations

Royal patronages and honorary tasks
The Royal Family attends to patronages and honorary duties for a large number of organisations and associations, which span a wide range of areas such as business, culture, sport, sustainability and social purposes.
After the throne succession on 14 January 2024, decisions will be made over several months about which of the Crown Prince Couple’s and HM The Queen’s patronages will be continued and the allocation thereof.
Until then, all of the patronages and honorary duties which prior to now have been attended to by the Crown Prince Couple and HM The Queen will cease.
The institutions and organisations affected will be contacted about the decisions taken concerning possible continuation and allocation.
Purveyors to the Royal House of Denmark
The title “Purveyor to the Royal House of Denmark” has existed for more than 100 years and is awarded as a special recognition of a company based on an evaluation of quality, business conduct, social responsibility and orderliness. Today, 104 Court titles are awarded to Danish companies and five to foreign companies.
Upon the succession to the throne, the title “Purveyor to the Royal House of Denmark” ceases for the companies to which it has been bestowed. This is stated in “Instructions and guidelines for purveyors to the Royal House of Denmark” and was furthermore communicated to the company when the title was awarded.
“Purveyors to the Royal House of Denmark” will, however, be able to use the assigned title until the expiration of the validity period and, as a minimum, until 14 January 2025.
Later on, decisions will be made about the future arrangement concerning purveyors to the Royal House of Denmark.
Honorary titles and decorations
The honorary titles such as lady-in-waiting, gentleman-in-waiting and Master of the Royal Hunt are not affected by the throne succession – the same applies to already awarded orders of chivalry and medals.

 

[Alisa]

Will Christian automatically get his own court given that he is 18? Or perhaps will it be delayed until he graduates university and starts carrying out duties in a day to day manner.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Will Count Nikolai come from Australia to attend his uncle King Frederik X's proclamation?

 

[Izzie]

Can any Dane on here clarify something - I just read something from one of those royal news youtube channels that a press release went out saying that there will be no balcony appearance, no balcony proclamation or speech by the PM? Is that true? Has anything of that kind been released by the DRF? It was stated in was in the press release about what will happen on the 14th. Unless it was a bad Google translate or misunderstanding

 

[Tatiana Maria]

More info on the effects of the abdication/new reign on charities, patronages, purveyors to the court etc

https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/news/t...ish-court-and-honorary-titles-and-decorations

I am enjoying the transparent and detailed communication from the court about issues relating to the change of reign. It might also suggest that preparations have been in the works for awhile, even if the queen kept the news from the prime minister until the last couple of weeks.

Background on succession to the throne

Until 1953, only male descendants of the king were able to inherit the throne. That was changed in 1953, when, following a referendum, it was determined that female descendants should also be able to inherit the throne, but in such a way, however, that male descendants should have precedence.

https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/news/background-on-succession-to-the-throne

Unfortunately, this press release is historically inaccurate - female descendants were able to inherit the throne under the succession laws in place until 1853, even though none actually did as male heirs were always available until the law was changed.

The Danish Royal Family has been the most progressive of all royal families. They were the first to have non-white senior member of the royal family in all of Europe. They were also the first to have a non-white Lady in Waiting or Aide de Camp in all the European royal houses.

The Norwegian royal family was the first to have a woman as head of the royal court, which the Danish royal family has yet to do.

Moreover, they weren't too keen on their princes and princesses marrying commoners (no permission was granted until the last generation). And currently they are the only European kingdom where none of those in line to the throne married (or were allowed to marry - without losing their place in line to the throne) commoners from their own country.

In all fairness, neither Frederik or his brother ever tried to gain Government permission to marry a local commoner. There is what the media purported and what the reality is.

Princess Elisabeth stated in interviews that she would have lost her position if she married her Danish commoner partner (just as her brothers did) and that this was her reason for not marrying him. They remained an unmarried couple until his death in 1997, so it would seem the Queen (it is the Queen's permission which is constitutionally required for a marriage in order for the dynast to maintain their position in line to the throne) maintained the no-Danish-commoners rule until then.

From Princess Elisabeth's interviews, she strikes me as having been a very honest person, so I would say it is reality.

 

[star84]

I am enjoying the transparent and detailed communication from the court about issues relating to the change of reign. It might also suggest that preparations have been in the works for awhile, even if the queen kept the news from the prime minister until the last couple of weeks.



Unfortunately, this press release is historically inaccurate - female descendants were able to inherit the throne under the succession laws in place until 1853, even though none actually did as male heirs were always available until the law was changed.



The Norwegian royal family was the first to have a woman as head of the royal court, which the Danish royal family has yet to do.






Princess Elisabeth stated in interviews that she would have lost her position if she married her Danish commoner partner (just as her brothers did) and that this was her reason for not marrying him. They remained an unmarried couple until his death in 1997, so it would seem the Queen (it is the Queen's permission which is constitutionally required for a marriage in order for the dynast to maintain their position in line to the throne) maintained the no-Danish-commoners rule until then.

From Princess Elisabeth's interviews, she strikes me as having been a very honest person, so I would say it is reality.

I think Nikolai or Alexandra said something during the title debacle about expecting to lose the titles upon marriage too.

 

[Muhler]

Can any Dane on here clarify something - I just read something from one of those royal news youtube channels that a press release went out saying that there will be no balcony appearance, no balcony proclamation or speech by the PM? Is that true? Has anything of that kind been released by the DRF? It was stated in was in the press release about what will happen on the 14th. Unless it was a bad Google translate or misunderstanding

No, the statement from the PM's office says that the PM, Mette Frederiksen, will proclaim Frederik next Sunday.

I think this misunderstanding stems from the fact that no law says that the PM must do the proclamation. It can be anyone. It's just become tradition that it's the PM.
There has also been some speculation that the snowstorm yesterday could prevent the proclamation. But that's a bit far out! Unless there is a howling Fimbull (*) snowstorm in Copenhagen next Sunday there will be a proclamation.

(*) From Nordic mythology. A Fimbull winter is the worst kind of winter imaginable. Almost a kind of Biblical Flood, just with snow and ice. Hence why the Vikings believed that Hell (Hel) was dark and immensely cold and not hot.

 

[Mbruno]

No, the statement from the PM's office says that the PM, Mette Frederiksen, will proclaim Frederik next Sunday.

I think this misunderstanding stems from the fact that no law says that the PM must do the proclamation. It can be anyone. It's just become tradition that it's the PM.
There has also been some speculation that the snowstorm yesterday could prevent the proclamation. But that's a bit far out! Unless there is a howling Fimbull (*) snowstorm in Copenhagen next Sunday there will be a proclamation.

(*) From Nordic mythology. A Fimbull winter is the worst kind of winter imaginable. Almost a kind of Biblical Flood, just with snow and ice. Hence why the Vikings believed that Hell (Hel) was dark and immensely cold and not hot.

Will the meeting of the Council of State be televised too?

 

[Muhler]

Will the meeting of the Council of State be televised too?

I doubt that. But perhaps the signing of the abdication will.